Am I Being Scammed?

[robw1959]

My spider sense is really tingling over this deal. The seller, Kent Allison, agreed to sell me a '33 Goudey Ruth SGC 2 card directly through PayPal at a discount of around 6% under what he was asking on eBay. He said he had three of these Goudey Ruth cards and needed money due to a recent kidney replacement. I paid him on 1/5/23, and he supposedly shipped the card. He provided me with two USPS tracking numbers, one of which was supposedly for insurance purposes (weird!). On 1/10/23, I got a tracking notice letting me know a delivery had been attempted earlier that day when I wasn't home. The next day, around 11:30 am on 1/11/23, he emailed me saying that the tracking showed me missing the delivery and to update him once I have gone to the Post Office to pick up the package.

Here's where it gets really strange. At about 5:10 on 1/11/23, the postal clerk told me the package was gone, and that Kent paid USPS to intercept it earlier in the day and send it back to him. I then emailed him that evening to ask for an explanation, but I didn't hear back from him that evening or the next morning, so at around 1:30 pm on 1/12/23, I initiated a PayPal dispute, since I purchased the card via PP Goods & Services. Immediately after I opened the dispute, I got this email message from Kent: "Deal if off. You wasted my time and money. I don't believe you are who you say you are."
I replied that I am the one who feels cheated since he now has my money and soon will have the card as well.

My question is if I am being scammed, what do you think will be his next move, and what is he going to tell PayPal to get them to side with him? Thanks for any help.
--Rob

[perezfan]

Who knows what goes on in the minds of these creeps? I can't even comprehend his next "move", but wish you luck in getting your refund. PayPal tends to side with the buyer, and thankfully you did not use the Friends & Family option.

Please keep us posted on how this all plays out.

[edtiques]

I agree with Perezfan. Paypal tends to side with the buyer more than the seller.
Is it possible he's waiting to get the card back before he refunds your money?
Best of luck to you and keep us up to date please.

[jimq16415]

It sounds weird to have an insurance tracking no. but when you take a package to the counter and pay for postage there they would actually have slips you filled out and one bar code really was for insurance. If you check the number at usps it should show up ok.

Did you use paypal G & S or F&F?

[Rad_Hazard]

Good thing you used G&S. I don't think this person really has a "next move" since their trail points directly to scammer. My money says that you will get a refund from Paypal.

[mrreality68]

seems like a scam but I am not 100% sure how or what he gets out of it. Unless he has a way to keep the money but PP Goods and Services protects the buyer (especially how you described it)

Odd the 2 trackers
Odd it was intercepted before you had a chance to pick up at the Post Office
Odd he said you were wasting his time and money just because you missed the delivery
Lucky you used Goods and Service

good luck with it

[raulus]

Scammer or not, this seller doesn’t seem like worth dealing with.

[packs]

Did the post office provide any details on this paid intercept? I’ve not heard of that before and would be surprised it’s a service offered.

[edtiques]

Originally Posted by packs

Did the post office provide any details on this paid intercept? I’ve not heard of that before and would be surprised it’s a service offered.

"For a fee, USPS Package Intercept® lets the sender or recipient stop delivery or redirect a package, letter, or flat that is not out for delivery or already delivered. Most domestic mailings with a tracking or extra services barcode are eligible for Package Intercept. You can only request a Package Intercept online."

[todeen]

Originally Posted by edtiques

"For a fee, USPS Package Intercept® lets the sender or recipient stop delivery or redirect a package, letter, or flat that is not out for delivery or already delivered. Most domestic mailings with a tracking or extra services barcode are eligible for Package Intercept. You can only request a Package Intercept online."

I've used package intercept with FedEx or UPS when my purchase was sent to my previous address. It was a Shutterfly package. They are incompetent at shipping. I have updated my address multiple times, and now they have combined my previous address and my new address to create a third address that doesn't exist.

As for being scammed, it's hard to imagine a scenario in which the seller could get money out of this. I think he suffered sellers remorse and just didn't want to tell you that.

What is his ebay account so we can block him?

[packs]

Hmmm interesting. I didn't know you could do that.

If a scam was in the works, my guess is that the seller was looking to avoid "criminal" activity. Assuming you were sent an empty box or a box that didn't have the card you bought inside of it, by intercepting the box first, he would protect himself from accusations of fraud or charges of fraud or wire fraud for ripping you off over PayPal. Without receiving the bogus box you can't be sure he didn't actually mail the Ruth.

If that's the line of thinking, he probably forgot you paid him with a protected method and assumed you wouldn't be able to file for a refund.

[Jim65]

He's either a scammer or became extremely nervous when the package couldn't be delivered and though he was possibly gonna be scammed.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Jim65

He's either a scammer or became extremely nervous when the package couldn't be delivered and though he was possibly gonna be scammed.

I agree with latter.

Doesn’t sound like a scammer, sounds like a bit of overwrought unfounded seller panic. Not worth the effort to keep up with it to save this.

Sounds like you bought something from my grandmother, lol.

[bobbyw8469]

Avoid unreliable sellers and only deal with reliable ones or auction houses. He sounds like a fruitcake.

[judsonhamlin]

It smells scammy to me. For all we know, the box was empty or contained some 1991 commons. Perhaps the scam is to make multiple sales and hope one takes. The medical backstory also smells as bad as grandma’s attic

[Jobu]

This seems like just an odd character (hard to believe in the baseball card world, right???). It shouldn't work as a scam if you used GS - the tracking shows it was never delivered and that it was sent back to the seller after he paid to intercept it (I would get proof of this from your USPS). That should be about as slam dunk of a Paypal refund as you can get.

Unless there is something weird with that other tracking number and that is actually a package on its way to you that does not have the card. But if that is the case, I am not sure why he would bother with the two packages as you could just send one package without the card in it if that is your game. I would look that one up ASAP and see where that package is. If it is still on its way to you, put on a mail hold immediately so that it cannot be delivered to you. Then when it shows up at USPS, refuse delivery, get advice at the counter, etc.

[BobC]

I would check back with your local post office, and maybe get what documentation, names of who you talked with, and whatever else you can, to help verify and prove it was the seller who initiated the intercept and asked for the package to be sent back to him. You might also want to alert and share your story with the local postmaster as well, regarding this party's actions and possible scheme.

As soon as you said he accused you of wasting his time and money, he basically confirmed this is some scam or scheme on his part. As you stated, you had already paid him quickly and in full back on 1/5/23, so he already had full payment before shipping you the card. Exactly how then did that possibly cost him any money? And of course, the answer is it didn't. There's BS comment #1. And then to state you cost him time, what time? There's BS comment #2. You paid him up front and he went through the normal work and procedures to ship you the card, which is his duty and responsibility. If he's somehow trying to claim that an email he may have gotten and read, showing that the P.O. initially tried to deliver the package to you, is his reasoning and what he considers a waste of his time, there's obviously something else going on here.

And if I were you, I would immediately reach out to both Paypal and Ebay, and apprise them of your situation and this guy's unbelievably questionable actions. Something about what this guy is saying and doing makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It may be that his idea of wasting his time and money relates to him having to contact your local post office, and then pay them to have the package sent back to him. Regardless, that is all on him, not you.

And what may be weirdest of all, if he was trying to run some scam from the start, the fact that the P.O. did come by your home to deliver the item, but you just weren't there at that time, is totally random and nothing this guy could have foreseen or ever planned on happening. Or was it? Just out of curiosity, in your emails and negotiations with this guy, did he ever ask, or did you ever mention, that you worked during the day so that you probably wouldn't be there to sign for the package when the P.O. would initially try to deliver it? And if so, maybe he played you for that info and then was expecting the P.O. email noting the failed delivery attempt, and then just waited to receive it so he could immediately jump in to get the card back from the P.O.

Only other thing I can think of is if it is possible that this guy maybe had some seller's remorse (and/or possibly got a better offer after initially agreeing to sell it and sent it off to you), and jumped on the opportunity to get the card back when he lucked out and you weren't there when the post office showed up. Regardless, would definitely file a card not received claim with Ebay on him as soon as you can, as well. Good luck, I hope you get all your money back. This was not a cheap card.

By the way, forgot to ask this. If you did buy this card through Ebay, how come it didn't go through their authentication process and get sent first to PSA to verify the slab hadn't been compromised? Because in that case, wouldn't the card have actually been sent to you by PSA then, and not by him, and therefore possibly make him unable to intercept and initiate the return of the card since he was not the one actually sending it to you then? I know a lot of people despise and do not want this Ebay authentication program, but this may be an instance where if it was used, it would have protected you and made sure you got the card you paid for. And if others opined that maybe this guy was just weird and super-paranoid, wouldn't him having the card go through Ebay's authentication program have added some additional security and safety for him as well? Again, good luck, and hope you quickly get all your money back.

[aconte]

It may come across as callous and cold, but if it's baseball card related and
the other side is doing something as a result of illness or charity and I don't know you, I'm out.

[packs]

I’m with you. I assume everyone who sells something needs the money. It’s the only time I sell anything. I don’t typically need to know what the sale is meant to fund though.

[Directly]

So both the seller and the buyer potentially saved 6%--- I can say making a claim for a lost item, with either the Post office or Shipcover Insurance can be time consuming making you jump through all kind of hoops with taking some time to resolve. I've been lucky so far with only 2 packages stolen in transit. Haven't had a to make a claim with PayPal sale so cant say what all is involved for documentation. -

[Fred]

Just a guess -

I'm guessing the card is worth a couple grand.

Seller was very edgy shipping the card to begin with. Seller was probably afraid the card would get lost in the shuffle (heck, I don't trust the postal service at all these days - I stopped having all my financial documents sent through USPS). Seller requested ship back to them in an effort to not lose the card.

Kind of crappy all around. It wasted your time and effort. I bet if you were available to receive the package, all would have ended well. As for the seller, perhaps they can't afford to be out a couple grand and just got really paranoid and got impatient, very quickly.

Sorry to hear it happened.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Directly

So both the seller and the buyer potentially saved 6%--- I can say making a claim for a lost item, with either the Post office or Shipcover Insurance can be time consuming making you jump through all kind of hoops with taking some time to resolve. I've been lucky so far with only 2 packages stolen in transit. Haven't had a to make a claim with PayPal sale so cant say what all is involved for documentation. -

Ebay charges 12.9% on the first $7500 and 2.35% on the rest. So on an $11-12k card the fees would be 8% to 9% range. PPG&S is 3% so the savings to split is only 5-6%, maybe $600.

To me it doesn't really seem worth it to do that deal directly based on those numbers. Look how it ended up. If they had gone through ebay, they would have kept both sides honest and made sure an authentic SGC 2 was delivered.

That all being said, if OP had to pay sales tax on an ebay, that could be up to $1000 on the transaction. That's a huge motivation to avoid ebay.

[rjackson44]

When he receives card he better do a reverse payment back to you ,,i doubt it ,,paypal will give you back your cash ,,but it will take weeks with there so called investigations.Good luck man

[Popcorn]

kidney story is probably bogus and he needed quick funds. sorry this has happened but I’m sure PayPal will make good. can you share his eBay account so we can avoid? thanks.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by BobC

...If you did buy this card through Ebay, how come it didn't go through their authentication process and get sent first to PSA to verify the slab hadn't been compromised? Because in that case, wouldn't the card have actually been sent to you by PSA then, and not by him, and therefore possibly make him unable to intercept and initiate the return of the card since he was not the one actually sending it to you then?...

Ding, ding, ding.

Edited to clarify - this sounds like the reason seller didn't want to go through eBay. The Authenticity Guarantee program would've stonewalled an attempt to pull quite a few sneaky, scammy tricks.

[notfast]

Couple things.

Only original shipper can do a package intercept.

What did the other tracking show? You said he gave you two numbers.

Seems suspicious but could also be a shitty seller. Either way, move on.

[chalupacollects]

Possibly he was funded through Paypal and then shipped. Then drained and closed bank account leaving Paypal on the hook to you for GS.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by packs

Did the post office provide any details on this paid intercept? I’ve not heard of that before and would be surprised it’s a service offered.

Yes, it is a valid service. My tracking shows the attempted delivery after each stop along the way, followed by "intercepted" and "returned to sender."

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by todeen

I've used package intercept with FedEx or UPS when my purchase was sent to my previous address. It was a Shutterfly package. They are incompetent at shipping. I have updated my address multiple times, and now they have combined my previous address and my new address to create a third address that doesn't exist.

As for being scammed, it's hard to imagine a scenario in which the seller could get money out of this. I think he suffered sellers remorse and just didn't want to tell you that.

What is his ebay account so we can block him?

I forgot his eBay user name, and the eBay listing does not come when searching for "completed" listings.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by BobC

I would check back with your local post office, and maybe get what documentation, names of who you talked with, and whatever else you can, to help verify and prove it was the seller who initiated the intercept and asked for the package to be sent back to him. You might also want to alert and share your story with the local postmaster as well, regarding this party's actions and possible scheme.

As soon as you said he accused you of wasting his time and money, he basically confirmed this is some scam or scheme on his part. As you stated, you had already paid him quickly and in full back on 1/5/23, so he already had full payment before shipping you the card. Exactly how then did that possibly cost him any money? And of course, the answer is it didn't. There's BS comment #1. And then to state you cost him time, what time? There's BS comment #2. You paid him up front and he went through the normal work and procedures to ship you the card, which is his duty and responsibility. If he's somehow trying to claim that an email he may have gotten and read, showing that the P.O. initially tried to deliver the package to you, is his reasoning and what he considers a waste of his time, there's obviously something else going on here.

And if I were you, I would immediately reach out to both Paypal and Ebay, and apprise them of your situation and this guy's unbelievably questionable actions. Something about what this guy is saying and doing makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It may be that his idea of wasting his time and money relates to him having to contact your local post office, and then pay them to have the package sent back to him. Regardless, that is all on him, not you.

And what may be weirdest of all, if he was trying to run some scam from the start, the fact that the P.O. did come by your home to deliver the item, but you just weren't there at that time, is totally random and nothing this guy could have foreseen or ever planned on happening. Or was it? Just out of curiosity, in your emails and negotiations with this guy, did he ever ask, or did you ever mention, that you worked during the day so that you probably wouldn't be there to sign for the package when the P.O. would initially try to deliver it? And if so, maybe he played you for that info and then was expecting the P.O. email noting the failed delivery attempt, and then just waited to receive it so he could immediately jump in to get the card back from the P.O.

Only other thing I can think of is if it is possible that this guy maybe had some seller's remorse (and/or possibly got a better offer after initially agreeing to sell it and sent it off to you), and jumped on the opportunity to get the card back when he lucked out and you weren't there when the post office showed up. Regardless, would definitely file a card not received claim with Ebay on him as soon as you can, as well. Good luck, I hope you get all your money back. This was not a cheap card.

By the way, forgot to ask this. If you did buy this card through Ebay, how come it didn't go through their authentication process and get sent first to PSA to verify the slab hadn't been compromised? Because in that case, wouldn't the card have actually been sent to you by PSA then, and not by him, and therefore possibly make him unable to intercept and initiate the return of the card since he was not the one actually sending it to you then? I know a lot of people despise and do not want this Ebay authentication program, but this may be an instance where if it was used, it would have protected you and made sure you got the card you paid for. And if others opined that maybe this guy was just weird and super-paranoid, wouldn't him having the card go through Ebay's authentication program have added some additional security and safety for him as well? Again, good luck, and hope you quickly get all your money back.

He originally had the card for sale on eBay, but I purchased it from him as a direct PayPal transaction. And no, he did not have any way of knowing I wouldn't be home for the delivery attempt.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Ebay charges 12.9% on the first $7500 and 2.35% on the rest. So on an $11-12k card the fees would be 8% to 9% range. PPG&S is 3% so the savings to split is only 5-6%, maybe $600.

To me it doesn't really seem worth it to do that deal directly based on those numbers. Look how it ended up. If they had gone through ebay, they would have kept both sides honest and made sure an authentic SGC 2 was delivered.

That all being said, if OP had to pay sales tax on an ebay, that could be up to $1000 on the transaction. That's a huge motivation to avoid ebay.

I think it was worth it. He had it on eBay for $8500, so he would have only netted around $7500 assuming a buyer would have paid his asking price. I offered $8K through PayPal, so with their 3% Goods & Services fee, he still would have netted around $7750 for the sale that way, and I would have saved $500.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by notfast

Couple things.

Only original shipper can do a package intercept.

What did the other tracking show? You said he gave you two numbers.

Seems suspicious but could also be a shitty seller. Either way, move on.

The other USPS tracking number appears to show the exact same tracking information.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by robw1959

He originally had the card for sale on eBay, but I purchased it from him as a direct PayPal transaction. And no, he did not have any way of knowing I wouldn't be home for the delivery attempt.

Aha, that may help to explain things a lot more. Can now possibly see the seller being super paranoid could have been a possible issue after all. Probably never know for sure. I just pray you quickly get your money back. In your defense, you have the post office to support an show the seller initiated the interception and return of the card. So no way he can ever try to claim he didn't get his card back. Records will show you never had it, and it was never delivered to you.

And if this guy was so antsy and paranoid, he probably should have insisted the sale go through regular Ebay sales channels, including through the authentication program. That way, once the card got to PSA for the authentication of an unaltered/damaged slab, he's off the hook for liability and if something should subsequently have happened with the card in its delivery to you, as that would now be solely on the P.O. and Ebay and their authentication service. Or at least that is my understanding. Again, good luck on getting your money back. You should prevail, just may take some time. Hang in there.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by robw1959

I think it was worth it. He had it on eBay for $8500, so he would have only netted around $7500 assuming a buyer would have paid his asking price. I offered $8K through PayPal, so with their 3% Goods & Services fee, he still would have netted around $7750 for the sale that way, and I would have saved $500.

Probably ends up netting even less than that though. Don't forget the federal, state, and maybe even local income taxes he could end up owing on the sale, depending on what his tax cost basis was that he had in the card, and whatever else might be on his tax return. He could also possibly end up owing self-employment taxes on the profit from the card sale as well, if he ends up filing as a dealer in business. He did use Paypal G&S, so he was going to get a 1099-K form showing and reporting that sales income to the IRS in 2023 for sure. And given the recent one-year deferral of the lowered reporting threshold for reporting such sales on 1099s, I don't think we'll see any more deferrals after this one.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Avoid unreliable sellers and only deal with reliable ones or auction houses. He sounds like a fruitcake.

I read all of the comments and am in agreement, especially with this one.
.

[Yoda]

Has any one else ever dealt with this loathsome, Keith Allison, before?

[robw1959]

By way of a quick update, the Postal intercept has caused the card to be returned to Kent Allison on Tuesday, and he signed for the receipt of it. However, surprise-surprise, I have yet to be refunded, so I updated my PayPal dispute with the following screen capture:

[Leon]

Originally Posted by robw1959

By way of a quick update, the Postal intercept has caused the card to be returned to Kent Allison on Tuesday, and he signed for the receipt of it. However, surprise-surprise, I have yet to be refunded, so I updated my PayPal dispute with the following screen capture:

I would never defend the guy but sometimes eBay systems take a while to work...ie customer sat issues, refunds, etc..

.

[Exhibitman]

Next step: Postal inspector to file a mail fraud claim, his local police to lodge a wire fraud and theft claim. Perhaps a visit from the local constabulary might jog his memory?

[robw1959]

It doesn't look like I need to do any of that stuff, since PayPal just emailed me with a message stating that I would be getting my $8,000 refund in the next couple of days . . . a thankfully, uneventfully, happy ending.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by robw1959

It doesn't look like I need to do any of that stuff, since PayPal just emailed me with a message stating that I would be getting my $8,000 refund in the next couple of days . . . a thankfully, uneventfully, happy ending.

Glad to hear you're being made whole by PayPal.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Leon

I would never defend the guy but sometimes eBay systems take a while to work...ie customer sat issues, refunds, etc..

.

EBay isn't involved as the card was not purchased on eBay.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Tabe

EBay isn't involved as the card was not purchased on eBay.

Thanks. My mistake.

Glad the money is getting returned. All is well that ends well.
.