auction fees and the damage done

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

right?????? a 90% buyers premium????

More like 94% in this case

[tiger8mush]

yup, I had my eye on a number of lots that have ended in the past couple weeks in the $30-range, but the $29 min BP + high-as-hell shipping charges (should be $5 to ship a $50 card, not $13) kept me away.

[Fballguy]

Buyer's premium is the biggest scam running. How have collectors not revolted against this archaic policy?

[Fballguy]

Here's a humorous explanation of why Buyer's Premiums exist...From an auction house of course. One I've never used and likely never will...

When attending an auction keep in mind that the buyer's premium is used to enhance the customer experience. The buyer's premium is charged so buyers are comfortable during the time of auctions and so the auction can operate efficiently. The extra charge is always put to good use.

[parkplace33]

It would not surprise me moving forward to see an increase in BP.

AHs are making more money this year, why not make more?

[rjackson44]

buy here

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

When attending an auction keep in mind that the buyer's premium is used to enhance the customer experience. The buyer's premium is charged so buyers are comfortable during the time of auctions and so the auction can operate efficiently. The extra charge is always put to good use.

This is some of the more comical corporate bull!@#$ I've read in awhile.

My only objection to a BP is when A) it's used to try and mask what you're really paying and B) when the auction house lies that it is about anything except jacking their profit margin. There is nothing wrong with making more money if you can get people to pay it, but don't straight up lie that it's for my "comfort" during an online auction.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Here's a humorous explanation of why Buyer's Premiums exist...From an auction house of course. One I've never used and likely never will...

When attending an auction keep in mind that the buyer's premium is used to enhance the customer experience. The buyer's premium is charged so buyers are comfortable during the time of auctions and so the auction can operate efficiently. The extra charge is always put to good use.

I own an auction house and that's the weirdest, lamest explanation of BP I've ever heard.

BP was implemented by Christies and Sotheby's in the art world (some debate about who was first) to give them a competitive advantage in securing consignments by offering lower seller commissions. It's literally a shell game the same money is coming from somewhere, and ultimately should make no difference in what a consignor is paid or what a buyer pays. That being said, since it's become the industry norm it would be tough to just put the entire percentage you collect back on the seller as it had been previously, hence the proliferation.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Buyer's premium is the biggest scam running. How have collectors not revolted against this archaic policy?

As a buyer you just factor Buyers Premium (BP) in to your maximum bid. So with 20% BP and $10 shipping and 6% sales tax, if you are willing to spend $140 max then your max bid will be around $100.

It is the consignor who should be upset with high BP, because on a $140 bill they are only seeing $100 (less if there are seller fees, and the cost of shipping the item to the AH + grading fees etc).

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

As a buyer you just factor Buyers Premium (BP) in to your maximum bid. So with 20% BP and $10 shipping and 6% sales tax, if you are willing to spend $140 max then your max bid will be around $100.

It is the consignor who should be upset with high BP, because on a $140 bill they are only seeing $100 (less if there are seller fees, and the cost of shipping the item to the AH + grading fees etc).

Adapting to the BP doesn't make the BP ok. What's the rational explanation for a $29 BP on a $31 auction win? Heritage likely made more on that sale than the consignor.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Adapting to the BP doesn't make the BP ok. What's the rational explanation for a $29 BP on a $31 auction win? Heritage likely made more on that sale than the consignor.

The consignor in this case was David Hall. You may be right about this particular card, but he'll be fine.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

The consignor in this case was David Hall. You may be right about this particular card, but he'll be fine.

I assume this guy is rich? And your implication is that since rich people can afford exorbitant BPs and their impact on sale prices, they're not an issue?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Adapting to the BP doesn't make the BP ok. What's the rational explanation for a $29 BP on a $31 auction win? Heritage likely made more on that sale than the consignor.

I'd be fine with a minimum BP as long as the BP was reduced on the large purchases, say over 10K down to 15%.

[x2drich2000]

HA has always, at least as long as I can remember, had a minimum buyers premium. I just wasn't aware they raised it from $14 to $29. At least HA does show the BP amount if you bid for the item on the item page.

Is the buyer's premiums for the auction stated in the consignment contract for any AH? Just thinking out loud, but if the AH raises the buyers the premium, the natural response to achieve the same total would be a lower bid amount resulting in less money to the consignor. How as a consignor would you feel in this situation?

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Buyer's premium is the biggest scam running. How have collectors not revolted against this archaic policy?

and without a buyers premium, how would you suggest the AH make money for the service they provide?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

and without a buyers premium, how would you suggest the AH make money for the service they provide?

They need 30+% of every sale to keep the lights on?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

They need 30+% of every sale to keep the lights on?

Nobody's getting rich at 20% gross margin before expenses.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Nobody's getting rich at 20% gross margin before expenses.

This I doubt. In today's virtual world, overhead and other costs aren't nearly the issue that they used to be. And there's also the "service and handling" that goes toward expenses.

So I'd guess that the big AHs are doing quite, quite well lately. Especially with as many auctions as they run (and how much the most valuable lots are worth nowadays). 20% of those numbers is an awful high figure to start out with.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by casey2296

nobody's getting rich at 20% gross margin before expenses.

thank you!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Is the buyer's premiums for the auction stated in the consignment contract for any AH?

We state the BP in our consignor contracts.

[dmats33312]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Buyer's premium is the biggest scam running. How have collectors not revolted against this archaic policy?

Cause it doesn’t matter to the buyer, in the end the price is the price whether I’m paying BP or not and if the price is in the range I want to pay doesn’t make a difference. Cosignors on the other hand I can understand hating BP especially if there are commissions on top.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by dmats33312

Cause it doesn’t matter to the buyer, in the end the price is the price whether I’m paying BP or not and if the price is in the range I want to pay doesn’t make a difference. Cosignors on the other hand I can understand hating BP especially if there are commissions on top.

.

This is the fallacy collector's tell themselves to help them sleep at night.

[Yoda]

I believe that some AH's give a small % of the BP back to favorite consignors for high value cards. Clearly, that is not the case here.

[oldjudge]

If there is a minimum buyers premium shouldnt there be a maximum buyers premium? Isn’t there a cap as to how much your buyer’s experience can be enhanced?

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

.

This is the fallacy collector's tell themselves to help them sleep at night.

No fallacy at all. When I bid I set a limit as to what I will pay for each lot and bid to that level or less. The level is my total cost including buyers fees, tax, shipping, etc. I don’t care how you name the pieces, for my part you can call them auction house vacation fund, I just care about the aggregate number.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

No fallacy at all. When I bid I set a limit as to what I will pay for each lot and bid to that level or less. The level is my total cost including buyers fees, tax, shipping, etc. I don’t care how you name the pieces, for my part you can call them auction house vacation fund, I just care about the aggregate number.

Exactly. Call the final price what you will, so long as I know in advance how to calculate it. The fallacy is the guy who thinks he really would have/ should have won that card for $250 it it weren't for that nasty, unfair, hidden, undeserved and evil 20% BP that adds another $50. As if no one would have bid the card to $300 if there was no BP.

As for the minimum BP, that does suck but at least it was disclosed. It sends a clear message that the AH prefers to sell higher dollar items and encourages bidders to think about bidding on multiple items. Makes sense at some level, but it can be harsh to some, as we now see.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by dmats33312

Cause it doesn’t matter to the buyer, in the end the price is the price whether I’m paying BP or not and if the price is in the range I want to pay doesn’t make a difference. Cosignors on the other hand I can understand hating BP especially if there are commissions on top.

So how much should the OP have bid for the card in the first post if he was willing to shell out $3X to have the card added to his collection??

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

So how much should the OP have bid for the card in the first post if he was willing to shell out $3X to have the card added to his collection??

I'm not sure I understand your variable $3X here, but I'd have intentionally paid about $50 for this card. Knowing in retrospect that I didn't win anything else in the auction, and knowing now what the shipping/handling charges are, I should have put in a max bid of $4.90 for the card. I would have been outbid, but a winning bid of $4.90 would have given me an invoice total of $50.

Edited to add: In this case then I guess X would be 16.67 and my bid would be about $0.29X for a bill of $3X.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I'm not sure I understand your variable $3X here, but I'd have intentionally paid about $50 for this card. Knowing in retrospect that I didn't win anything else in the auction, and knowing now what the shipping/handling charges are, I should have put in a max bid of $4.90 for the card. I would have been outbid, but a winning bid of $4.90 would have given me an invoice total of $50.

In case anyone is wondering, HA does provide details on how shipping and handling costs are calculated and offers an estimated shipping button that you can click near the bottom of every item listing.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I'm not sure I understand your variable $3X here, but I'd have intentionally paid about $50 for this card. Knowing in retrospect that I didn't win anything else in the auction, and knowing now what the shipping/handling charges are, I should have put in a max bid of $4.90 for the card. I would have been outbid, but a winning bid of $4.90 would have given me an invoice total of $50.

I think it would be nice if going forward any auction house with minimum BPs put a footnote to that effect in cheap lot descriptions. Otherwise, it is better to skip the auction route and just buy that type of card on eBay or from a dealer.

[dmats33312]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

So how much should the OP have bid for the card in the first post if he was willing to shell out $3X to have the card added to his collection??

It’s in the terms of the auctions rules at any you go, it isn’t complicated