Dave Parker - HOF?

G1911 · #1 04-15-2022, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John1941

Rizzuto was way better than Dark because of his great fielding. Dark wasn't that much better as a batter (98 OPS+ vs. 93 OPS+), but Rizzuto was way better as a fielder. He moved to third base by the end of his career, and BR rates Rizzuto as 95 runs better than Dark as a fielder, if you include the positional adjustments.

Al Dark is probably underrated though.

Dark oWAR: 42.4
Rizzuto oWAR: 29.6

Dark dWAR: 12.2
Rizzuto dWAR: 23.0

Dark WAR: 43.8
Rizzuto WAR: 42.2

Dark slashed .289/.333/.411, Rizzuto .273/.351/.355

Dark did move to 3B when he got old, but his career was also longer. Rizzuto was a better fielder, but they are very similar players on the whole, and many of the modern analytics give more value to Dark's career than Rizzuto. Yankees get more press clippings and Rizzuto was a stud in 1950, but it's very debatable which was better. I don't think either belong, but they are direct contemporaries in the same city at the same position in the same time, and Rizzuto comes out lower by a lot of the modern stats.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #2 04-15-2022, 01:01 PM

I always thought that if Dark had stayed a Giant his whole career there might have been a catchy song written "Pee Wee, Darkie and the Scoot"

Of course Pee Wee left both of them in the shade as a much more complete ballplayer.

John1941 · #3 04-15-2022, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Dark oWAR: 42.4
Rizzuto oWAR: 29.6

Dark dWAR: 12.2
Rizzuto dWAR: 23.0

Dark WAR: 43.8
Rizzuto WAR: 42.2

Dark slashed .289/.333/.411, Rizzuto .273/.351/.355

Dark did move to 3B when he got old, but his career was also longer. Rizzuto was a better fielder, but they are very similar players on the whole, and many of the modern analytics give more value to Dark's career than Rizzuto. Yankees get more press clippings and Rizzuto was a stud in 1950, but it's very debatable which was better. I don't think either belong, but they are direct contemporaries in the same city at the same position in the same time, and Rizzuto comes out lower by a lot of the modern stats.

Rizzuto certainly doesn't have overwhelming credentials, and I wouldn't mind much if he wasn't in the Hall, but he did miss three years to WWII, and taking that into account it's closer.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 04-15-2022, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John1941

Rizzuto certainly doesn't have overwhelming credentials, and I wouldn't mind much if he wasn't in the Hall, but he did miss three years to WWII, and taking that into account it's closer.

I think he's in because he's a Yankee and because of his post-career career.

D. Bergin · #5 04-15-2022, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think he's in because he's a Yankee and because of his post-career career.

Yup. I think Rizzuto is a good example that your post career contributions to baseball, do have a say in whether you get elected or not.

He was a beloved announcer in New York for decades after his career was over.

Maybe he wasn't a HOF announcer, or a HOF player, but put them together, and maybe he equals a very worthy HOF'er.

Plenty will argue that's not how things are done. I'd argue they are...and Rizzuto and Joe Torre are just two examples of it. It's just not acknowledged.

Just so happened that Rizzuto got in as a player and Torre a manager...but we know, they both got in for more then that in combination.

Also, the MVP and 3 years of prime production lost to the military, don't hurt either.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 04-15-2022, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Yup. I think Rizzuto is a good example that your post career contributions to baseball, do have a say in whether you get elected or not.

He was a beloved announcer in New York for decades after his career was over.

Maybe he wasn't a HOF announcer, or a HOF player, but put them together, and maybe he equals a very worthy HOF'er.

Plenty will argue that's not how things are done. I'd argue they are...and Rizzuto and Joe Torre are just two examples of it. It's just not acknowledged.

Just so happened that Rizzuto got in as a player and Torre a manager...but we know, they both got in for more then that in combination.

Also, the MVP and 3 years of prime production lost to the military, don't hurt either.

The interlude in Paradise by the Dashboard Light should have disqualified Rizzuto.

SteveMitchell · #7 04-15-2022, 02:18 PM

Well said, D. Bergin. Many outstanding players went on to coach, manage, broadcast, administrate, umpire and even (shudder) write Baseball, making them Hall of Fame worthy for a lifetime of service to the game. Buck O'Neill recently was elected and Lefty O'Doul has been long overlooked. With a free afternoon, dozens of others could be cited including another 2022 HOF man: Jim Kaat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Yup. I think Rizzuto is a good example that your post career contributions to baseball, do have a say in whether you get elected or not.

He was a beloved announcer in New York for decades after his career was over.

Maybe he wasn't a HOF announcer, or a HOF player, but put them together, and maybe he equals a very worthy HOF'er.

Plenty will argue that's not how things are done. I'd argue they are...and Rizzuto and Joe Torre are just two examples of it. It's just not acknowledged.

Just so happened that Rizzuto got in as a player and Torre a manager...but we know, they both got in for more then that in combination.

Also, the MVP and 3 years of prime production lost to the military, don't hurt either.

peterb69 · #8 04-17-2022, 11:39 AM

Do I think Dave Parker belongs in the Hall? - No
Do I think Dave Parker belongs in the hall based on other fringe players in? - Yes

What we need is an Elite HOF category of players who are in already. Maybe a fixed number and only way in is to bump someone out.

shagrotn77 · #9 04-17-2022, 09:25 PM

Wow. 127 votes for yes. 127 for no. I guess you could say that we're split on this topic. I voted yes, but only because the voters have loosened their standards quite a bit over the last few years. Harold Baines getting in really messed everything up. I hate playing the if this guy's in, then that guy deserves to get in game. But it's kinda where we're out now. We can thank Jerry Reinsdorf for that.

egri · #10 04-15-2022, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John1941

Rizzuto certainly doesn't have overwhelming credentials, and I wouldn't mind much if he wasn't in the Hall, but he did miss three years to WWII, and taking that into account it's closer.

Dark lost a few years as well; he went into the Marines in 1943 and didn't get out until July of 1946.

View Poll Results: Should Dave Parker be in the HOF?
Yes	138	50.00%
No	138	50.00%
Voters: 276. You may not vote on this poll

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
SOLD: Dave Parker Signed Ball - PSA	carlsonjok	Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T	0	05-23-2021 04:11 PM
Wtb - Kent tekulve, Dave Parker Pirates gu jerseys	mrozie21	Autographs & Game Used B/S/T	0	05-20-2020 06:40 PM
Dave Parker & Harold Baines bats	Fredskinz	Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used	7	02-13-2019 07:25 AM
Reds 1984 dave parker jersey & giants 1982 parker jersey	Al Parker	Autographs & Game Used B/S/T	1	07-04-2013 10:16 AM
Dave Parker game used Cooper bat	keithsky	Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T	0	11-19-2011 07:23 PM