The curious evolution of SGC grading

[drumback]

A few years ago I acquired a few Turkey Red cards that were in outstanding condition, save for one tiny pinhole at the top. I contacted SGC to inquire about having them graded, and was told that no matter what, if a card had a pinhole it would receive a grade no higher than SGC 1. A couple years later I noticed Turkey Reds in similar condition graded SGC 1.5. And now, this in the recent REA auction. Apparently, it all depends on who is submitting the card. What say ye, SGC?

[Lorewalker]

It has always been about who submits, not what is submitted, at SGC, PSA and Beckett. It is more than just the inconsistencies of grading day to day.

[G1911]

I just got a Turkey Red of McFarland in the mail yesterday in an SGC 1.5 slab. It has a pinhole at both top and bottom.

Personally, I don’t think a little pinhole merits the automatic 1. I’d call some pinhole cards fair or good, but the standard should be consistent.

[glynparson]

This is not true. A card could get a 2 if near perfect besides the pin hole. It was extremely and I mean extremely rare for one to do so but saying they were maxed out at a 1 is not true. Maybe the sgc employee you spoke to misspoke or you misunderstood but saying it was a 1 no matter what is simply not true. As for current standards I honestly don’t know. I use PSA exclusively because of my previous job at sgc I don’t want their to be any rumor of benefits etc.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by glynparson

This is not true. A card could get a 2 if near perfect besides the pin hole. It was extremely and I mean extremely rare for one to do so but saying they were maxed out at a 1 is not true. Maybe the sgc employee you spoke to misspoke or you misunderstood but saying it was a 1 no matter what is simply not true. As for current standards I honestly don’t know. I use PSA exclusively because of my previous job at sgc I don’t want their to be any rumor of benefits etc.

Any insider knowledge on why they won't bring the registry back?

[Pat R]

Here's a recently graded T206 with a pin hole and a pencil mark that looks like someone tried to erase that received a 1.5.

img663.jpg

[drumback]

Well, when I made the call, I was passed along to one of the graders, who quite clearly stated that a pinhole was ALWAYS an automatic grade of 1. No exceptions. Just passing along what I was told.

[jakebeckleyoldeagleeye]

Personally I'd rather have a card with a small pin hole than one's that's graded with a noticeable crease.

[Smarti5051]

I agree that the "pinhole" seems like a pretty arbitrary automatic downgrade to 1 (or even 2). I have seen some beautiful cards with the unfortunate pinhole that present so much better visually than a "4" with 85-15 borders, discoloring, and muted colors. Sometimes, the pinhole is so unnoticeable you only know it is there because the card looks like a "7" but is in a "1" holder.

[rhettyeakley]

I would rather have a card with a crease than an actual hole in the card.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by drumback

Well, when I made the call, I was passed along to one of the graders, who quite clearly stated that a pinhole was ALWAYS an automatic grade of 1. No exceptions. Just passing along what I was told.

This seems to be evidence for what many of us have suspected is going on there lately–their graders have been instructed to toughen the grading standards. It would be nice if they let their customers know this as well...

[G1911]

I thought it was supposed to be a pinhole = a grade of 1. Here's the McFarland, older slab (I don't recall the details of each generation as I crack all my graded cards out of their tombs, but it's not a recent one). There is a pinhole that goes all the way through at the top between the laurels, and another at bottom below the "r" in his last name. Even if there was some exemptions or certain eye appeal pinhole cards reaching a 1.5 or 2 instead, I'm surprised it would be this one in that category, or any card that clearly has 2. There is heavy corner wear, a light corner crease, a notch in the bottom middle. This card would (or, should) be a 3 at best without the pinholes.

[Kidnapped18]

Originally Posted by G1911

I thought it was supposed to be a pinhole = a grade of 1. Here's the McFarland, older slab (I don't recall the details of each generation as I crack all my graded cards out of their tombs, but it's not a recent one). There is a pinhole that goes all the way through at the top between the laurels, and another at bottom below the "r" in his last name. Even if there was some exemptions or certain eye appeal pinhole cards reaching a 1.5 or 2 instead, I'm surprised it would be this one in that category, or any card that clearly has 2. There is heavy corner wear, a light corner crease, a notch in the bottom middle. This card would (or, should) be a 3 at best without the pinholes.

FYI this McFarland was graded in June 2015.

[bounce]

the 1914 cracker jack cobb in heritage this weekend had pinhole(s), and it was an SGC 2

[hcv123]

pin hole or staple hole = automatic "1".

I agree with previous post that it is RIDICULOUSLY arbitrary that card with a hole which has a larger percentage of original cardboard than say many cards with paper loss or badly rounded corners each of which receive potentially better numerical grades. See attached scan for ridiculous imo.

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by bounce

the 1914 cracker jack cobb in heritage this weekend had pinhole(s), and it was an SGC 2

As stated 2 pinholes..That being said, looked like 3 grades higher or better otherwise.

[t206kid]

They're also quite generous on bigger cards. This has zero business being a 1.5

I've noticed the same trend. Seen quite a few 1.5 pinholes but very few 2s and they're always mega fire but with hole.

[egbeachley]

Theoretically, you could have someone put pinholes in all 4 corners then take the card down, handle it so that the corners are worn down, then receive a 3 or possible higher.

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Any insider knowledge on why they won't bring the registry back?

I have no insider knowledge anymore. I talk to Dave when I see him and have nothing but good things to say about the company from when I worked there but I don’t know what goes on there anymore.

[T205 GB]

With 10000000000% certainty I can attest to certain people getting preferential grading bumps or having an altered card slabbed from PSA and SGC.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

With 10000000000% certainty I can attest to certain people getting preferential grading bumps or having an altered card slabbed from PSA and SGC.

And this is exactly why the grading companies shouldn't be allowed to set their own grading standards, why they should be required to be certified/licensed by a single hobby directed group that sets the single approved and unchanging grading standards for ALL grading companies to follow, they should not be allowed to charge contingent grading fees based on the value of a card, and then they should be subject to periodic independent reviews by third parties to make sure they follow all of the above. And if they don't follow and pass the review, they get their certification/license revoked till they fix things.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by BobC

And this is exactly why the grading companies shouldn't be allowed to set their own grading standards, why they should be required to be certified/licensed by a single hobby directed group that sets the single approved and unchanging grading standards for ALL grading companies to follow, they should not be allowed to charge contingent grading fees based on the value of a card, and then they should be subject to periodic independent reviews by third parties to make sure they follow all of the above. And if they don't follow and pass the review, they get their certification/license revoked till they fix things.

Now that’s a board I would push hard to be some part of.

To try and stave off any unwelcome comments about how I may approach that. Just because I don’t like TPGs doesn’t mean that I can’t stay neutral. I have to do it every day with my job. I like some contractors in despise some others but I have strict criteria for inspections regardless of whether I like them. I have to be fair and neutral to both to ensure compliance. Doesn’t mean I always like it but you have to have some standard of morals and a keen distaste for dishonesty.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Now that’s a board I would push hard to be some part of.

To try and stave off any unwelcome comments about how I may approach that. Just because I don’t like TPGs doesn’t mean that I can’t stay neutral. I have to do it every day with my job. I like some contractors in despise some others but I have strict criteria for inspections regardless of whether I like them. I have to be fair and neutral to both to ensure compliance. Doesn’t mean I always like it but you have to have some standard of morals and a keen distaste for dishonesty.

What I quoted is exactly what CPAs and CPA firms have to abide by. And you know what, the ONLY thing that CPAs do that no one else can do, is give their "opinion" on financial statements. Much in the same way TPGs give their "opinions" on authenticating and grading cards. Everything that this hobby has let these for-profit grading companies get away with is disgusting. From their ability to set their own standards, and apparently change it at will, to their utter lack of even an attempt to at least try to look independent, is appalling. They answer to no one, but their own pocketbooks. And at this point, they really don't have to worry because the mindless masses for the most part have drunk the Kool-Aid and bought into them hook, line, and sinker.

There are too many people/companies with wealth and influence that have way too much money or their businesses tied up in graded cards to ever let any kind of grass roots movement or organization get even the slightest of footholds into reigning in the TPGs, so once and for all we have one single grading standard for ALL cards and graders. For to do so could potentially put at risk much of the value people have accumulated in their graded cards. And I sincerely doubt most people that do have significant investments in graded cards would ever really want to risk that. And I do mean investments, for even someone that is a collector at heart cannot completely ignore the way the market and values for a lot of their cards and collectibles have grown into what they are today. This hobby has become a big industry, controlled by different factions and enterprises that are not at all really worried about cards and collectibles, just how they can make the most money possible off people that do worry about and collect such things.

Andrew, like you, I would look to be part of such a board myself. The question is, how do you start one and get people in the hobby to buy into it? And then, how do you force the TPGs to go along with it? I guess one possible way to start would be to create some kind of card collecting club or organization that would seek collectors to join. And as more and more joined, they would assert their own standards and such, as agreed upon by the membership, not the TPGs, AHs, dealers, etc. For something like this to actually work, it would have really needed to have started at least about the same time the TPG companies got going, so as to catch them when they were just starting out, and force their acquiescence to being overseen and answering to the members of the hobby itself, not the other way around. One can always hope for a positive change to things though, right?