Local John Stockton Mask Controversy

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Where are these reports of organ failure?

I'm not going into get into a discussion with you because you've already made up your mind. But I will answer the question. I simply Googled "organ failure due to covid vaccine" and this is the first thing that popped up. I doubt you'll read it, but here it is anyways.

https://journals.lww.com/ccejournal/...nction.10.aspx

There are more like articles on the same Google search page.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'm not going into get into a discussion with you because you've already made up your mind. But I will answer the question. I simply Googled "organ failure due to covid vaccine" and this is the first thing that popped up. I doubt you'll read it, but here it is anyways.

https://journals.lww.com/ccejournal/...nction.10.aspx

There are more like articles on the same Google search page.

Sad case, for sure. By the way you word this, are you open to seeing the other side of the vaccine debate, or have you made up your mind?

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'm not going into get into a discussion with you because you've already made up your mind. But I will answer the question. I simply Googled "organ failure due to covid vaccine" and this is the first thing that popped up. I doubt you'll read it, but here it is anyways.

https://journals.lww.com/ccejournal/...nction.10.aspx

There are more like articles on the same Google search page.

I read it. Says what you say it is. I think your message is wrong though in the sense that I haven’t made up my mind. My doctor made up my mind for me in a sense. My main point is find a doctor you know and trust and go with his or her thoughts. You may consider that sheepish but without a medical degree I think that’s smart.

[Republicaninmass]

Yes, others always have your best interest at heart

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Yes, others always have your best interest at heart

You play doctor by yourself. I wish you luck. Player lawyer when you come up with an issue too.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Carter08

I read it. Says what you say it is. I think your message is wrong though in the sense that I haven’t made up my mind. My doctor made up my mind for me in a sense. My main point is find a doctor you know and trust and go with his or her thoughts. You may consider that sheepish but without a medical degree I think that’s smart.

I find it interesting that out of all the posts here, you are:
1) The only person who has stated you've learned something
2) The only person who says "I don't have expertise, so I'm trusting my medical professional." Not CNN, not FOX, not the internets. Not Tucker, not Fauci, not the bots on Facebook. Your medical professional, that you have a history with.

And yet, you are the one person on here who has been called out for "having a closed mind." By someone who, when asked if he has an open mind, doesn't respond.

Am I the only one who noticed that??

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I find it interesting that out of all the posts here, you are:
1) The only person who has stated you've learned something
2) The only person who says "I don't have expertise, so I'm trusting my medical professional." Not CNN, not FOX, not the internets. Not Tucker, not Fauci, not the bots on Facebook. Your medical professional, that you have a history with.

And yet, you are the one person on here who has been called out for "having a closed mind." By someone who, when asked if he has an open mind, doesn't respond.

Am I the only one who noticed that??

Nope.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'm not going into get into a discussion with you because you've already made up your mind. But I will answer the question. I simply Googled "organ failure due to covid vaccine" and this is the first thing that popped up. I doubt you'll read it, but here it is anyways.

https://journals.lww.com/ccejournal/...nction.10.aspx

There are more like articles on the same Google search page.

At the conclusion of the article (and a few times throughout) you'll find this statement:
"While the overall efficacy and safety profile of the BNT162b2 COVID-19 vaccine remains excellent for the general population, rare serious events have been reported."
This is essentially the same disclaimer you hear on every pharma ad that runs on TV. That's because there is no "100%" when it comes to medicine, because every human on this planet is wired differently. We aren't carbon copies or machines that you can import A and export results of B every time, without fail.

The key takeaways for me are "efficacy and safety profile of the vaccine remains excellent for the general population" and "rare" serious side effects. All of the statistics from actual credible sources back this up. If this article is enough to make you not trust the vaccine, then you probably need to stock up on leeches to cure your ailments, because you might experience side effects just as bad from taking, for example, NyQuil: https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-6...st-sideeffects

[Peter_Spaeth]

Virtually every medical intervention comes with some degree of risk that must be weighed against its benefits. Offering up a rare adverse event report to cast doubt on a beneficial treatment really isn’t very persuasive at all. It’s just fear mongering. Getting into your car and driving to the grocery store comes with a risk. If I posted a story about someone who got killed driving to the grocery store, would people decide not to do it anymore? I doubt it. But it’s the same concept. I would be willing to bet you could post hundreds of serious adverse event reports about Tylenol and even more about aspirin. In fact aspirin probably directly causes thousands of deaths per year.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In fact aspirin probably directly causes thousands of deaths per year.

With a key difference being, if I have a headache, I'm not going to pass it on to someone else who might die from it. But that's just me thinking about others and all that sheep-mentality foolishness...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by dgo71

With a key difference being, if I have a headache, I'm not going to pass it on to someone else who might die from it. But that's just me thinking about others and all that sheep-mentality foolishness...

Right, but my point is that in relative terms, the risk of Tylenol or aspirin is very small and most people aren’t going to not take it because of that risk. But in this context, some people seem to apply a very different standard.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Another thing I just don’t get is that it seems a lot of people who think the shots are too risky smoke, drink excessively, are obese, eat an unhealthy diet, and don’t exercise. All things that are far far far riskier. Don’t get it.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Another thing I just don’t get is that it seems a lot of people who think the shots are too risky smoke, drink excessively, are obese, eat an unhealthy diet, and don’t exercise. All things that are far far far riskier. Don’t get it.

I have many of those type of friends. I lost a life long friend like that a couple weeks ago. In real life I avoid this subject like the plague. Everyone is just too crazy no matter what side they are on. Plus I live in a small rural town that has been hit extremely hard since the beginning. I personally know easily 30 who have died and way more that now have permanent health problems including my brother.

The biggest change I have noticed is the people that have avoided the vaccine change their minds and get it after a loved one dies from Covid.

No matter your choice I sincerely wish you all good health.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Another thing I just don’t get is that it seems a lot of people who think the shots are too risky smoke, drink excessively, are obese, eat an unhealthy diet, and don’t exercise. All things that are far far far riskier. Don’t get it.

Probably to the same ironic extent that a similar set of people now demand that others protect them from their lifelong unhealthy habits by demanding that everyone else wear a mask.

Not a conspiracy subscriber by any means, but sick of all the half-truths and unanswered questions/concerns from all sides. Too much agenda and emotion, not enough objectivity and logic. No wonder people can't make informed choices.

[dgo71]

"An extensive clinical and research investigation, including cytokine analysis, whole blood cytometry by time of flight, and whole exome sequencing, did not reveal a definitive explanatory mechanism"

Also from the article you linked...if I'm reading this correctly,this is saying the doctors involved in this study could not determine a cause for any of the effects the patients experienced. It's not exactly airtight to definitively blame a vaccine for anything, when even the medical professionals you yourself are citing did not feel comfortable in doing so.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Correct. Sometimes in these situations causation is fairly obvious. Sometimes, it isn’t.