Were the T210's actually a 1910 issue or were they issued in 1911?

[Steve D]

Here's a previous thread about T210s that might provide some help/insight:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...=t210+cy+young

Steve

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by Steve D

Here's a previous thread about T210s that might provide some help/insight:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...=t210+cy+young

Steve

Nice thread with some solid information.

To expand on your post a tad, here is a clipping that discusses the Virginia Valley League photographs.

[Pat R]

We just have different opinions on what the evidence is telling us Trey no problem there.

Awhile back I asked about the Cabinets mentioned on the Old Mill ledger pageI think you could send in for them or the way it reads they were also in the cartons.

[IMG][/IMG]

I just found this newspaper clip and to me it suggest there was enough interest in the cabinets to inspire them to start making the T210's.

December 12 1910 Greenville News
The_Greenville_News_Mon__Dec_12__1910_.jpg

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Pat R

We just have different opinions on what the evidence is telling us Trey no problem there.

Awhile back I asked about the Cabinets mentioned on the Old Mill ledger pageI think you could send in for them or the way it reads they were also in the cartons.

I just found this newspaper clip and to me it suggest there was enough interest in the cabinets to inspire them to start making the T210's.

December 12 1910 Greenville News
Attachment 486421

Patrick, it is almost certain that the cabinets came after the T210 cards. They include two players listed for Petersburg that appear on T210 cards for Portsmouth. As I mentioned in a prior post, Lipset reports that that the team moved from Portsmouth to Petersburg in July 1910, but all T210 players show Portsmouth--they do not show the team change. Surely the cards would have noted the change if they came after the cabinets.

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Patrick, it is almost certain that the cabinets came after the T210 cards. They include two players listed for Petersburg that appear on T210 cards for Portsmouth. As I mentioned in a prior post, Lipset reports that that the team moved from Portsmouth to Petersburg in July 1910, but all T210 players show Portsmouth--they do not show the team change. Surely the cards would have noted the change if they came after the cabinets.

That sounds correct. You also have this clipping to connect the actual photographs to before 4/27/1910 from the Carolina Association, Eastern Carolina League, and very likely the Virginia League. If one was to believe the ledger is indicating H801-7 began shipping 5/6/1910, then it seems we have this pinned down to an exact sequence of dates. If the move wasn't until July 1910 those specific cabinets may have shipped later. The more I look at that ledger, the "began shipping 3/17/1910" is when T210 distribution began. It's right there in handwriting. We already know that some of the T210-8 images match cards produced in 1909. Are there other 1909 images in T210? It is directly next to the picture coupon which is related to T210 and there is no indication that it is T206. The writing above that is next to the T206 coupon. The discontinued date aligns with the end of the "Texas League baseball pictures" ads almost exactly. The discontinued date is even three days after that clipping that describes that fine gentlemen from Old Mill planning to visit Greenville with some gifts. Again, the discontinued date is directly next to the T210 coupon, not the T206 coupon. All of that information certainly confirms 1910 for me, amazing what all of those clippings and other pieces of information can reveal. That ledger looks spot on.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by oldeboo

Yeah, I had seen that earlier. "Some time ago" people were able to get the H801-7s during the distribution of T210. The visitation by the Old Mill representative was after the main distribution through the cases, during the 1910 season. These cabinets were used to draw a customer into a product that looked very similar to it, they would not have shipped with cards that looked absolutely nothing like the cabinets. T210 Series 2, 5, and 7 are very closely connected in more ways than one, such as T209-2. Geographically speaking, they were also at the core of the Old Mill factory in Virginia. Those series consist of the Virginia League, Carolina Association, and East Carolina League. It's one piece to the puzzle.

Check out post #9 in the link for the method of distribution of H801-7:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=171131

Again, please reference post #21 in this thread:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=232761

T210-8 tells a very interesting story in relation to T211 and some issues that seem earlier such as Hindu SL. You have to dissect the T210 set in pieces. The pieces tell the story.

I don't see anything in those two threads that change my opinion.

Originally Posted by oldeboo

That sounds correct. You also have this clipping to connect the actual photographs to before 4/27/1910 from the Carolina Association, Eastern Carolina League, and very likely the Virginia League. If one was to believe the ledger is indicating H801-7 began shipping 5/6/1910, then it seems we have this pinned down to an exact sequence of dates. If the move wasn't until July 1910 those specific cabinets may have shipped later. The more I look at that ledger, the "began shipping 3/17/1910" is when T210 distribution began. It's right there in handwriting. We already know that some of the T210-8 images match cards produced in 1909. Are there other 1909 images in T210? It is directly next to the picture coupon which is related to T210 and there is no indication that it is T206. The writing above that is next to the T206 coupon. The discontinued date aligns with the end of the "Texas League baseball pictures" ads almost exactly. The discontinued date is even three days after that clipping that describes that fine gentlemen from Old Mill planning to visit Greenville with some gifts. Again, the discontinued date is directly next to the T210 coupon, not the T206 coupon. All of that information certainly confirms 1910 for me, amazing what all of those clippings and other pieces of information can reveal. That ledger looks spot on.

This all coincides with T206's it even states one Nat'l and 1 southern league picture.

This is just my opinion you don't have to accept. I see evidence that at the very least some of the T210's appear to have been distributed in 1911 I haven't seen one thing that convinces me they were distributed in 1910 like an ad or newspaper clip on the distribution. There are clips that they took the pictures in 1910 but to me that's not proof they distributed them in 1910. The T206 pictures were taken long before they printed the T206's it states that in the Ball letter, they had the pictures before they even attempted to get permission to use them.

[oldeboo]

The ledger entry format is brand name at the top of the page, an item from that brand, then directly next to it and inline with the top of that item the information begins.

Take a look at some of the entries:
https://t206resource.com/Ledger%20Page%20Gallery.html

The 3/17/1910 date is exactly where it should be as a description next to the coupon that coincides with T210. The same for the discontinued date. It is not near the above T206 references at all, there is a very clear space and it was intentionally written directly next to the T210 related coupon. Then the cabinet entry is directly below the coupon for that specific cabinet.

We just aren't seeing the same ledger.

[oldeboo]

Yeah, I had seen that earlier. "Some time ago" people were able to get the H801-7s during the distribution of T210. The visitation by the Old Mill representative was after the main distribution through the cases, during the 1910 season. These cabinets were used to draw a customer into a product that looked very similar to it, they would not have shipped with cards that looked absolutely nothing like the cabinets. T210 Series 2, 5, and 7 are very closely connected in more ways than one, such as T209-2. Geographically speaking, they were also at the core of the Old Mill factory in Virginia. Those series consist of the Virginia League, Carolina Association, and East Carolina League. It's one piece to the puzzle.

Check out post #9 in the link for the method of distribution of H801-7:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=171131

Again, please reference post #21 in this thread:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=232761

T210-8 tells a very interesting story in relation to T211 and some issues that seem earlier such as Hindu SL. You have to dissect the T210 set in pieces. The pieces tell the story.