Shoeless Joe Jackson Auto- Fake?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by swarmee

The signatures were spelled wrong. I figure that's a solid giveaway.

You'd think, but it's not always a guarantee that the items in question aren't authentic. While in most cases your logic would prove accurate, there will always be exceptions to anything. A couple of examples come immediately to mind, among others:

--During his career, Claude Passeau would on rare occasion sign his surname "Passo". Same with Reggie Jackson ("Reggie Jax") and Nino Bongiovanni ("Nino
Bongy").

--Very early on, Willie Mays signed "William Mays" in spite of his birth name actually being Willie by all accounts.

--Satchel Paige initially spelled his nickname with two l's before updating it to a single l. There seemed to be a brief crossover period where both variations were employed.

--President Andrew Johnson misspelled his own surname "Johson" when signing his own marriage documentation.

--With infirmities of age, a person can occasionally slip up and miss a letter or two, as is evidenced by examples I've received over the years from older players. One good friend, signing what was likely his last autograph for me shortly before he died, actually signed a baseball "Geo." as opposed to his actual name of Joe. He was pushing 100 and unfortunately confused. He knew what he was writing was incorrect but was powerless to change it. This upset him greatly. I was on hand to witness this.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

You'd think, but it's not always a guarantee that the items in question aren't authentic. While in most cases your logic would prove accurate, there will always be exceptions to anything.

Here are the ones I was talking about. From a lot of mostly fraudulent IP autographs that got certified by PSA. Likely to be different authenticators, but just goes to show the inaccuracy of the medium or training of the employees.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...ighlight=swift

And then there are the many errors of cards that were autographed and witnessed that PSA failed to authenticate. But most would rather them err on failing autographs rather than passing them.

[swarmee]

I think it would be interesting to see if PSA is going to use AI in the future to help authenticate autographs. If so, would this one pass at that time?

[drcy]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I think it would be interesting to see if PSA is going to use AI in the future to help authenticate autographs. If so, would this one pass at that time?

AI likely will be useful for signature in the future. It already helps identify paintings by examining brushwork, etc.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by drcy

AI likely will be useful for signature in the future. It already helps identify paintings by examining brushwork, etc.

Just so you know we had a thread a few month back about AI and the positives of it but the opportunities that still exist in it.

It was interesting but more related to the cards authenticating and grade them.

I am not sure if another member could find the thread.

It was a long and interesting read.

[SteveS]

Jeff, here's that thread: https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=2132816

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by SteveS

Jeff, here's that thread: https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=2132816

thanks that was the thread.

But as I thought it was mostly about cards.

Not sure if the AI technology is currently is an issue or a strength for autographs.

Does anyone on this board know?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I think it would be interesting to see if PSA is going to use AI in the future to help authenticate autographs. If so, would this one pass at that time?

It's plausible, but I doubt it. They would need separate training data for each signature they want to authenticate, and would need a very large sample of both known authentic signatures and forged signatures for it to learn from. Many thousands of examples for each player. And if the background behind the autos is an image, as opposed to just a plain white background, then they would need even more. Then they would need to pay a highly skilled worker to build a separate model, fine tuning the parameters and hyper-parameters for each player. For a player like Joe Jackson with a mere handful of known examples, it simply wouldn't be possible to do with AI. For a player like Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Bob Feller or Michael Jordan though, it could be done. I don't know how useful/accurate the results would be though, as I've never built models for this specific application, but I suspect a skilled data scientist could build a model that would likely outperform any human expert for this specific problem. However, the juice probably isn't worth the squeeze. If you think auto authentication is expensive now, just wait until the cost increases 10-fold.