T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




When American Lithographic started printing the 350 Series T206's, they introduced new T-brands: AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, CAROLINA BRIGHTS, CYCLE, DRUM,
EPDG, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR, and TOLSTOI .

TOLSTOI print runs started circa early 1910. Continued to the end of the T206 press runs (Spring 1911). To date, 255 subjects have been confirmed. Most TOLSTOI cards
are not tough to find. However, certain 350-only subjects printed early in 1910 must have been short-printed, as they are very tough to find.



TOLSTOI checklist (255 subjects) confirmed. They are listed here according to their respective T206 series.

350-only Series...................146 subjects

Abstein
Anderson
Arellanes
Atz
Barbeau
Barger
Barry (A's)
Bender (trees)............. ?
Bescher (portrait)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Brashear
Bresnahan (bat)
Burchell
Burns
Bush
Byrne
Campbell
Carrigan

Casey
Chappelle
Charles
Clark
Clymer
Collins (Milwaukee)
Collins (A's)
Cree
Cross
Davidson
Delehanty (Louisville)
Demmitt (New York American)
Dineen
Doolan (fielding)
Dorner
Downey (fielding)
Downs
Joe Doyle (NY)
Dubuc
Jack Dunn

Joe Dunn
Dygert
Easterly
Engle
Evans
Ferguson
Fiene (throwing)
Fletcher
Ganzel
Gasper
Graham (St Louis)
Gray
Grimshaw
Groom
Hartsell
Hayden
Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoblitzell
Hoffman (Providence)
Hoffman (St Louis AL)

Hofman
Howard (Chicago NL)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hunter
Jones (Detroit)
Kelley
Killian (portrait)
Kisinger
Kleinow (New York-catching)
Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)
Kroh
LaPorte
Lattimore
Lavender
Lennox

Livingstone
Lord
Maddox
Maloney
Marquard (portrait)
Mattern
McAleese
McBride
McCormick
McElveen
McGinnity
McIntyre (Detroit)
McLean
Merritt
Milan
Miller (Pittsburg)
Mitchell (Cincinnati)
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moeller
Moran (Chicago NL)

Mowrey
Murray (bat)
Myers (batting)
Myers (fielding)
Nattress
Nichols (bat)
Oakes
O'Brien
O'Neill
Paskert
Perring
Pfeister (seated)
Phillippe
Purtell
Puttman
Quillen
Quinn
Randall
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rhoades (hands at chest)

Rhodes
Ritter
Rossman
Rudolph
Schmidt (portrait)
Schreck
Scott
Shannon
Sharpe
Slagle
Smith (Chicago, white cap)
Smith (Buffalo)
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Starr
Stanage
Stephens
Strang
Summers
Taylor

Thomas
Unglaub
Warhop
Willett
Wilson
Zimmerman


350/460 series...................57 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Harry Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)

Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake, St. Louis (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifeld (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)

Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (Chicago-pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (throwing)
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)
CYoung (glove)


460-only Series......…..........46 subjects

Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (follow thru)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (hands over head)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (hands over head)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Duffy
Larry Doyle (portrait)
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hand at waist}

Hummel
Lake, St. Louis (ball)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (batting)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Schulte (back view)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)

H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


Six Super-Prints

Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Mathewson (dark cap)



This is a work is stillin progress.


TED Z
.

Ted do you have scans or know who confirmed these Tolstoi's

Bliss
Casey
Knight (bat)
Knight (portrait)
Merritt
O'niell
Pfeister (seated)

[Pat R]

Ted for accuracy on the Tolstoi list I would appreciate if you would respond to my question.

These are confirmed and they were on your old list and Scot readers Tolstoi survey but you don't have them on your new list.

Beckley
Donovan (throwing)
Knabe
Bill Sweeney

These are not on your list and I have them confirmed

Street (portrait)
Fromme

Street Portrait.jpg

Fromme Tolstoi.jpg

These are on your new list but weren't on your original list so they are recently confirmed or mistakes

Bliss
Casey
Knight (bat)
Knight (portrait)
O'neill
Pfeister (Seated)

I haven't seen or found any records of these Tolstoi's do you have scans or a record of who confirmed these recently?

I did find where you confirmed the Merritt in Scot's survey do you have a scan of that card?

Originally Posted by Archive

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

SCOT

I found 5 more Tolstoi's........

Campbell

Cree

Downs

Lattimore

Merritt


TED Z

[tedzan]

Pat R

I've been away since last Friday. I was set-up at the Philly Show (3 days). Visiting friends this week. When I return home,
I'll try to sort thru my records to see what I come up with.


Meanwhile, when are you going to correct your "buddies" (or whoever) at T206Resource regarding these 5 cards:

Ames (Hands Above Head) listed as "confirmed" with an AB460 back. This is absolutely a NO-PRINT.

Furthermore, the T206Resource checklist regarding PIEDMONT 350-460/42 includes these 4 subjects listed as "confirmed":

Bergen (catching)
Chance (batting)
Murray (portrait)
Wiltse (Portrait - With Cap)

These 4 cards are absolutely NO-PRINTS with PIEDMONT 350-460/42 backs.

For over 15 years, there are three of us, who individually, put together our P42 runs. And we have compared our experiences
collecting this sub-set. We are convinced that T206Resource is inaccurate, listing these 4 cards as "confirmed" with this back.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Pat R

I've been away since last Friday. I was set-up at the Philly Show (3 days). Visiting friends this week. When I return home,
I'll try to sort thru my records to see what I come up with.


Meanwhile, when are you going to correct your "buddies" (or whoever) at T206Resource regarding these 5 cards:

Ames (Hands Above Head) listed as "confirmed" with an AB460 back. This is absolutely a NO-PRINT.

Furthermore, the T206Resource checklist regarding PIEDMONT 350-460/42 includes these 4 subjects listed as "confirmed":

Bergen (catching)
Chance (batting)
Murray (portrait)
Wiltse (Portrait - With Cap)

These 4 cards are absolutely NO-PRINTS with PIEDMONT 350-460/42 backs.

For over 15 years, there are three of us, who individually, put together our P42 runs. And we have compared our experiences
collecting this sub-set. We are convinced that T206Resource is inaccurate, listing these 4 cards as "confirmed" with this back.


TED Z
.

Here's the Wiltse Ted

Wiltse PD42.jpg

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Here's the Wiltse Ted

Attachment 481065

I included Wiltse by mistake. My bad. Sorry about that, as I listed it off the top of my head (since I'm not at home).

The 4th inaccuracy in T206Resource 's PIEDMONT #42 checklist is Overall (Hands at waist level).

The PIEDMONT #42 sub-set is complete with exactly 72 subjects....63 from the 350/460 Series and 9 from the 460-only Series.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Ted I'm not sure why you're asking me about someone else's list but some research indicates the following cards in question were at some point confirmed by the following people....

Bergen (catching) Piedmont factory 42
Anonymous
Ted Z
Brian W


Murry (portrait) Piedmont factory 42
Dave Wipple
Ted Z
Scot R


Overall (hands at waist) Piedmont factory 42
Ted Z
Scot R

Chance (batting) Piedmont factory 42
Had your initials on Bill Browns super set spreadsheet

[tedzan]

Why do we have to repeat the same old stuff, over and over again ?

What you have posted are 15-year old data when Bill Brown first posted his T206 super-set spreadsheet in 2006. For the most part Bill's Excel sheet is accurate.
However, a number of wrong inputs did get reported.

Subsequently, as new information regarding T206 front/back patterns as a result of my theories (and other's theories), I contacted Net54er's who had inputted
questionable front/back combos on the spreadsheet. Starting with Ames (hands over head) / AB460. The guy who inputted this admitted he made a mistake.

I contacted the person who provided the Overall (hands at waist level). He realized he had made a mistake, since his card was the Overall (hand at face level).

Regarding Bergen.....here is my post on a thread regarding P42 cards dated: 3-16-2010

Originally Posted by tedzan

I have removed Bergen from the confirmed list, as I can't find whatever evidence I had that it was confirmed.
And like you, I have never seen one.

Regarding Chance.....here is my post on a thread regarding P42 cards dated: 3-17- 2010

Originally Posted by tedzan

I must say....that surprised me. I cannot find any evidence of Chance (batting) with a PIEDMONT 460/42 back.
I will look into why my initials are in that slot on the super-set.
TED Z

Furthermore, Adam Goldenberg, Craig Wright, and I were working on PIEDMONT #42 runs. The 3 of us kept in touch, trading and selling P42s to each other;
and, comparing notes. I think Adam completed his run. I am not certain if Craig did. All three of us agreed that only 9 subjects in the 460-only Series were
printed with P42. Several years have past since then, and NO additional new P42's have been discovered.

Chase (Trophy)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


TED Z
.

[sreader3]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Ted I'm not sure why you're asking me about someone else's list but some research indicates the following cards in question were at some point confirmed by the following people....

Bergen (catching) Piedmont factory 42
Anonymous
Ted Z
Brian W


Murry (portrait) Piedmont factory 42
Dave Wipple
Ted Z
Scot R


Overall (hands at waist) Piedmont factory 42
Ted Z
Scot R

Chance (batting) Piedmont factory 42
Had your initials on Bill Browns super set spreadsheet

Well since my name was mentioned I might as well respond. While I did conduct large surveys back in the day, it is possible that whatever Murray and/or Overall P42 “confirmation” data I may have published came from reports by advanced collectors with whom I was in touch. It is also possible that these data points resulted from ebay listings with incorrect PSA flips or back scans, which happened from time to time.