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View Poll Results: Sorry for the initial misstep in posting this poll. Please weigh in with your vote.
Ty Cobb 100 18.69%
Honus Wagner 21 3.93%
Rogers Hornsby 3 0.56%
Joe Jackson 3 0.56%
Lou Gehrig 16 2.99%
Josh Gibson 9 1.68%
Babe Ruth 355 66.36%
Frank Baker 2 0.37%
Walter Johnson 7 1.31%
None of the above 22 4.11%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 535. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 09-22-2021, 03:49 PM
mrreality68's Avatar
mrreality68 mrreality68 is offline
Jeffrey Kuhr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 53toppscollector View Post
I think it is fruitless and unfair to try to compare baseball players from different eras, especially wildly different eras. Comparing guys from the 1800s, when they pitched from 45 or 50 feet away and players didnt wear gloves, to guys playing today, just seems unreasonable. Its like asking which mode of transportation is better, the wagon or a Porsche. When it was either take a horse/wagon or walk, the wagon seems like the best idea ever. But now, if I offered you either a wagon or a Porsche, you'd probably take the Porsche, if time was any kind of consideration.

The game of baseball was completely different in 1905 than what it is today. Mostly because humans are different and they have evolved, alongside technology. Babe Ruth is amazing, but did he ever actually face any lefthanded pitcher who threw what is accepted today as a slider? He wasn't facing lefties throwing 96-98 consistently with 88-91 mph sliders.

Equipment was different, the game was played differently, and players were not built like they are today. Matty was 6'1/195, WaJo was 6'1/200, they were two of the most dominant pitchers of their era, and by today's standards, they'd be undersized righties.

I understand that there are statistics like ERA+ and OPS+ that adjust for era, but I don't think they can truly adjust and allow for direct 1 to 1 comparisons. The mound was different, park dimensions were a lot different, and the players themselves were a lot different. I mean, there were no night games until 1935. I think its easy to compare WaJo and Matty and Plank and Cy Young to each other, or Wagner to Eddie Collins. I think its a lot harder, and pretty pointless, to compare Mike Trout to Ty Cobb.

Different games, different eras. Just my $0.02
+1 Agree

But it is baseball and we always compare players and teams across different era in baseball
It is part of the Allure of baseball and the history of baseball that makes it fun but also endless debates.
WE all use different criteria, we use different stats, we use the same stats but use it differently.
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Thanks all

Jeff Kuhr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/

Looking for
1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards
1920s Advertising Card Babe Ruth/Carl Mays All Stars Throwing Pose
1917-20 Felix Mendelssohn Babe Ruth
1921 Frederick Foto Ruth
Rare early Ruth Cards and Postcards
Rare early Joe Jackson Cards and Postcards
1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson
1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson
1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson
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  #2  
Old 09-22-2021, 05:31 PM
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Cobb was actually a big dude. Had he come along later, developed different hitting style more tailored to the long ball, wonder how it would have worked out.
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  #3  
Old 09-22-2021, 05:49 PM
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Jim B.
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I vote for the Babe, I may be a little biased.
Just love the pitching pose!!!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1920_W516_1.jpg (77.4 KB, 196 views)
File Type: jpg 1920_W516_1_2.jpg (72.9 KB, 195 views)
File Type: jpg 1921_W516_2_1.jpg (79.1 KB, 198 views)
File Type: jpg 1921_W516_2_2.jpg (73.1 KB, 195 views)
File Type: jpg 1921_W516_2_3_Ruth.jpg (74.0 KB, 195 views)
File Type: jpg 1920_W520_13.jpg (77.9 KB, 194 views)
File Type: jpg 1920_W522_48.jpg (76.4 KB, 197 views)
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  #4  
Old 09-23-2021, 09:08 AM
Frankish Frankish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrreality68 View Post
But it is baseball and we always compare players and teams across different era in baseball
It is part of the Allure of baseball and the history of baseball that makes it fun but also endless debates.
WE all use different criteria, we use different stats, we use the same stats but use it differently.
Exactly. This is what makes it fun. In this case, particularly the definition of "greatest."

My vote went to Ruth. I've read some good arguments for Wagner and Cobb but, in the end, to my mind they don't overshadow the case for Ruth. Maybe it's just how I think about greatness....

Sadly, we will never really know about the Negro League players. I'm not an expert, but I suspect that Oscar Charleston and Josh Gibson (and Martin Dihigo) would have excelled in the majors, not just survived there but been star players. There's really no way to know if either of them could have matched the babe, but since (to my mind) no one else in that era did, I think the inconclusive result should go in Ruth's favor.

Also, for what it's worth, with respect to NL players vs Satchel Paige for a few at bats, etc., I don't think we can draw much in the way of useful conclusions. There just isn't enough data. If we were able to make those extrapolations, then the greatest Pre-War player might be Eiji Sawamura....
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  #5  
Old 09-26-2021, 04:25 PM
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akleinb611 akleinb611 is offline
Al@n Kle!nberger
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Many, many, (MANY!) years ago, a college friend, who was an outstanding logician, answered this question thusly:

Babe Ruth was the greatest player who ever lived, because if someone asks you who the greatest player who ever lived was, and your answer ISN'T Babe Ruth, your first job is to explain why your answer isn't Babe Ruth.

I can't improve on that.

Alan
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  #6  
Old 09-26-2021, 04:28 PM
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Fred Fred is offline
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At first, I thought it was a trick question...
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fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something
cool you're looking to find a new home for.
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  #7  
Old 09-28-2021, 07:54 AM
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FourStrikes FourStrikes is offline
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Default da Babe

Boom!, sir!

Quote:
Originally Posted by akleinb611 View Post
Many, many, (MANY!) years ago, a college friend, who was an outstanding logician, answered this question thusly:

Babe Ruth was the greatest player who ever lived, because if someone asks you who the greatest player who ever lived was, and your answer ISN'T Babe Ruth, your first job is to explain why your answer isn't Babe Ruth.

I can't improve on that.

Alan
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