ebay finds that PWCC engaged in shill bidding?

[JollyElm]

‘When elephants fight, the grass gets trampled.’

Although that idiom has a different connotation, I'm wondering if this move will finally be the first step in an overall easing of (skyrocketing) prices. Without their shilled prices clogging up the "Auction Prices Realized" database, perhaps 'real' sales will now define the price points.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Teflon Don.


Can the VCP Gentleman please remove his sales from his platform ??!

LOL for some cards that would mean deleting half the prices.

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by NATCARD

I just received this email from PWCC:
PWCC Marketplace


PWCC was shocked to see eBay’s email today stating that unidentified “individuals associated with” PWCC engaged in “shill bidding.” To PWCC’s knowledge, its employees have never engaged in any behavior that violates eBay’s agreements and policies. PWCC goes to great lengths to ensure that its employees follow eBay’s rules and PWCC employees do not have access to eBay’s bidding records or information.

Unlike spaghetti sauce, the story isn't what is in there. The story is what is missing. Like, perhaps "contractors" and "consignors."

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by chadeast

It is true. See how many there are now. They are dropping at a consistent rate of around 120 per minute. If this rate continues, they should all be gone by around 7:30 PM PST tonight.

1:25 PM PST: 46,424 listings
1:35 PM PST: 45,185
1:45 PM PST: 43,976
1:55 PM PST: 42,733 and dropping

My question is what about the items that are currently on ebay and as of now still have still close to 18,000 listed for auction with their current auction/bids ending in a little over 3 days.

IF they selling privileges and listings are restricted effective today what happens to all this listings/auction items?

any ideas

[BobC]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

My question is what about the items that are currently on ebay and as of now still have still close to 18,000 listed for auction with their current auction/bids ending in a little over 3 days.

IF they selling privileges and listings are restricted effective today what happens to all this listings/auction items?

any ideas

Could it be that Ebay didn't want to antagonize potentially legit bidders/buyers that had already put bids in on so many auctions and so decided to just let them end naturally? I doubt PWCC would not complete any such auction sales either as that just makes them look bad to those buyers also.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by BobC

This could get interesting. Could Ebay have learned of PWCC possibly starting/moving to a different site and preemptively reacted?

If this was just about removing PWCC because they have been migrating to their own platform there is NO WAY Ebay opens a legal can of worms by accusing them of shilling - they could have just quietly parted ways. Really interested to see this unfold further.

[Republicaninmass]

And still people ADMIT they bid and consign to these sheisters

I cant feel bad when, not if, they get burned

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not gone at all. Brentsy were moving to their own platform anyhow this will just accelerate things. As I said on the other forum (I think it was there) they are as resilient as a hydra. It's no secret what I think of them, but I would not make the mistake of underestimating them.

Agreed, but don't you think not being allowed on Ebay won't have some serious negative effect to PWCC's brand and sales going forward?

Unless, it has often been said on this forum how many times that a poster wished someone would set up a new online sales platform to compete, or at least offer a better alternative to, Ebay. Could that possibly be the intent/end goal that PWCC may have been looking into in possibly starting their own new online platform? If someone was going to do it, it would make sense for them to already have a strong market presence and sales, which PWCC sure seems to have, despite the pronounced lack of love they normally get on this forum.

[53toppscollector]

I think this was clearly a case of ebay knowing that PWCC was about to launch their own auction site, so they wanted to put a black mark on them before they completely got all the way out the door.

I've bought from PWCC before, I've gotten great deals, and I've also had auctions where it felt like I got screwed. That always seemed like the cost of doing business.

To think that ebay just found info about PWCC shill bidding is hilarious though. They clearly know that PWCC and probstein auctions are big targets for shill bidding and other shenanigans. I think the timing of it was just to take a final shot at PWCC before they packed up their things and left.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Ebay doesn't give a rat's ass about bid shilling, auction interference, or any number of other things... and they never have. They've openly encouraged it without actually saying so out loud.

I have told this story many times before but, just to illustrate how little Ebay cares about anything resembling dishonest selling:

Years ago, they put a fake (OBVIOUSLY fake) Peyton Manning jersey on the cover of their holiday catalog to tout the low average price that Peyton Manning jerseys could be purchased for on Ebay. They are well aware of the "problem" and choose to do nothing. In fact, if you search for any top player from any sport, at least 80% of the jerseys on the site - TODAY - will be fake. Just went and searched for Peyton Manning jerseys in size 52 and, yep, the vast majority are fake.

But Ebay *doesn't care*. Because they get their money and 90% of the time, the buyers don't complain. So "everybody" wins. Unless, of course, you're the guy trying to sell a legit Peyton Manning jersey and can't afford to let it go for $45.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by hcv123

If this was just about removing PWCC because they have been migrating to their own platform there is NO WAY Ebay opens a legal can of worms by accusing them of shilling - they could have just quietly parted ways. Really interested to see this unfold further.

Agree with you Howard. Don't think it would have been the sole reason, but maybe a contributing factor, among many others, that finally helped tip the scales for Ebay to finally take action?

And as for legal consequences of alleged shilling, just on this forum alone, how many times have posts brought up suspected shilling and other issues with PWCC activity on Ebay? And one can then only imagine how many times people have filed complaints and reports with Ebay about such PWCC questionable sales and activities. Plus, even though we can no longer see bidders names and info on Ebay auction sales, Ebay does have all that info. Is it possible that after years of complaints and allegations against PWCC that Ebay finally went ahead and really started looking into it, and did not like what they found?

Plus, what does the seller's agreement regarding questionable activities and Ebay's ability to terminate someone really say? I don't personally know, but could there be an implied waiver of someone's ability to sue Ebay in such an instance? Also don't forget, if PWCC was to try to sue Ebay, wouldn't that also open PWCC up to having their records and activities examined and exposed in a public court of law, which they may not like?!?!

[tbob]

I bought an item from PWCC 3 days ago and haven’t received any email or message from eBay. There was a last second bid which bumped up my bid but that is not unusual. I generally avoid PWCC auctions because of what I have read about them the past few years but this was a scarce item. I checked the tracking and it’s on its way. I’m going to watch what happens between eBay and PWCC…

[55koufax]

The mess in Afghanistan? Or the eBay - PWCC mess here at home?

[carolenny]

UGG. This is spam. Not in our ebay messages. Wants you to click a link if you have concerns about a recent purchace. Don't.

[A2000]

No longer any active items listed for PWCC. From 18,000 a few hours ago to zilch.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

I think this was clearly a case of ebay knowing that PWCC was about to launch their own auction site, so they wanted to put a black mark on them before they completely got all the way out the door.

I've bought from PWCC before, I've gotten great deals, and I've also had auctions where it felt like I got screwed. That always seemed like the cost of doing business.

To think that ebay just found info about PWCC shill bidding is hilarious though. They clearly know that PWCC and probstein auctions are big targets for shill bidding and other shenanigans. I think the timing of it was just to take a final shot at PWCC before they packed up their things and left.

And could it also be to possibly reduce/eliminate any potential blowback on Ebay? If something ever did go down on PWCC, and despite all evidence, Ebay never did anything about it, could they be brought into repurcussions and potential liability by never having acted on what they should have seen/known? By Ebay doing what they are doing now, could this be a partial CYA on their part in regards to PWCC? If nothing else, it doesn't put PWCC in a good light for a lot more people than already didn't like/trust them. Not to mention, this move by Ebay will likely put at least a temporary financial squeeze on PWCC, at least until they can get whatever new platform/program they were going to be starting up or moving to fully functioning and operating at least close to 100%.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by A2000

No longer any active items listed for PWCC. From 18,000 a few hours ago to zilch.

So they did take down all the active auctions as well, WOW! I was wrong in thinking they may just let the auctions run their course to not upset so many bidders. That would kind of made Ebay look like they were doing a last money grab on commisions from those auction sales though, so maybe best they just pull the plug on everything.

[tbob]

This is from eBay now.

[53toppscollector]

ebay must see the writing on the wall, honestly.

sports cards are still booming (relatively, even during this dip) and people dont want to pay all of the associated ebay fees, and i think they are crying out for an alternative.

myslabs hasnt really taken off yet, but they seem to be making progress. there are a bunch of other outlets, but ebay still gets the most eyes. if a bunch of the big players start to leave ebay, its going to take a big chunk out of ebay revenue.

also, you have to immediately kind of walk this back to nat turner's group buying goldin, and people theorizing that they wanted to turn goldin into a true competitor for ebay for cards, not just for more high end stuff. that sale happened like 6 weeks ago, and seems pretty prescient now.

big changes are coming, it seems.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by NATCARD

I just received this email from PWCC:
PWCC Marketplace

PWCC was shocked to see eBay’s email today stating that unidentified “individuals associated with” PWCC engaged in “shill bidding.” To PWCC’s knowledge, its employees have never engaged in any behavior that violates eBay’s agreements and policies. PWCC goes to great lengths to ensure that its employees follow eBay’s rules and PWCC employees do not have access to eBay’s bidding records or information.

PWCC is considering all available legal options in response to eBay’s defamatory press release and its bad-faith action to restrict PWCC’s privileges on eBay. PWCC has only just learned of these allegations and eBay has refused to share any details supporting its allegations. Despite eBay’s unwillingness to explain its claims, PWCC will continue to conduct its own internal review to ensure that its employees have not violated eBay’s rules.

PWCC is proud of the work it has done over the years to improve eBay’s own processes and to ensure that the platform is one that users can trust. These efforts went well beyond the measures that eBay takes to ensure legitimate auction processes. For example, PWCC worked tirelessly with eBay for over 10 years to remove the bid retraction option for buyers, eliminate forced return policies for sellers, and reduce the Significantly Not As Described (SNAD) window from 30 days to 3.

While PWCC became the world’s premier site for the sale of trading cards using eBay’s platform, in recent months, eBay’s increasingly competing interests prompted PWCC to begin the process of moving on. Today’s unilateral action by eBay simply hastens PWCC’s move to its new platform.

The new platform will be live on the PWCC website very soon. The August Premier Auction will still close on August 21st and the September Premier Auction is scheduled to launch on September 1st. PWCC is excited about the future, looks forward to launching all marketplaces on its new platform, and is confident in the benefits that will bring to buyers and sellers.

The part in bold is just laughable. It was carefully worded to read, "PWCC's employees have never engaged in any behavior that violates ebay's agreements and policies."

But note how they never claimed anything about its owners!

[ullmandds]

It's like "true confessions." As much as I hate PWCC and all they do for the hobby every now and then I buy something from them. I don't think I got shilled too badly?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

It's like "true confessions." As much as I hate PWCC and all they do for the hobby every now and then I buy something from them. I don't think I got shilled too badly?

I think you did good. But I am a HUGE fan of "Authentic" cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

The part in bold is just laughable. It was carefully worded to read, "PWCC's employees have never engaged in any behavior that violates ebay's agreements and policies."

But note how they never claimed anything about its owners!

Never mind that, consider the source of the representation. Why would you believe him?

[Steve D]

I find this all very strange.

I currently have one card that I won a few days ago in PWCC's current auction, but have not yet paid for. I normally wait until all individual items I'm considering end, before sending a full payment, as PWCC allows.

Even with a current item pending payment, I did not receive this email being talked about, from ebay. I also do not have any new ebay messages regarding PWCC in my ebay account.

I did get an email from PWCC today around 4:30PM Central Time, where they referenced an email from ebay.

I also still had around 20-25 PWCC cards on my watch list, and they have all disappeared. PWCC now has no items currently up and running.

Steve

[Bigdaddy]

Just coming across this now.

Somehow, this thread reminds me of the mound meeting in Bull Durham - "We're dealing with a lot of s#!+"

[Steve D]

Now, ebay has removed the card I won, a 1952 Topps Warren Spahn, from my account.

So it looks like if you have won an item from PWCC this month, and have not yet paid for it, ebay is cancelling it.

Steve

[The Nasty Nati]

Now that Watchcount doesn't exist for checking cards and PWCC has been axed from eBay, I'm guessing they won't be doing their Market Research thing where you can see sold ebay listings going back years. So how do we get that information now?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Steve D

Now, ebay has removed the card I won, a 1952 Topps Warren Spahn, from my account.

So it looks like if you have won an item from PWCC this month, and have not yet paid for it, ebay is cancelling it.

Steve

That kind of sucks! I guess they figure since they booted PWCC they don't want to potentially be on the hook if you pay them and they don't follow through and send you the card. What could Ebay do to PWCC in that case?

So I wonder what happens to people that did pay and haven't gotten their cards yet?

Also, what is to stop someone who just got a card from PWCC filing with Ebay to say they never got it? Not like PWCC will be cooperating with Ebay anytime soon now. Will Ebay step up and honor those alleged non-received cards? Can't see PWCC ignoring a customer who actually didn't receive a card, but under the circumstances can see someone making a false claim of non-receipt against PWCC as well. Don't think Ebay or PWCC want to tick off any customers any more than they already have given the circumstances.

Don't know, but was PWCC already using Ebay's managed payment program, or had they not switched yet? Can imagine Ebay trying to freeze their funds as long as possible to mitigate any such claims. This could be interesting as well.

[53toppscollector]

just checked, the 3 t206 that i won a few nights ago i had already paid for and they already shipped. guess i made it in under the deadline

[Peter_Spaeth]

Not every day 20,000 auctions or whatever it was get zapped. And with no notice it appears.

[irv]

My gut tells me this is eBays way of trying to damage PWCC's rep for leaving.

They likely have lots of proof of shilling, and other shenanigans, regarding PWCC but because of the cash flow, never cashed that card in, until now.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by irv

My gut tells me this is eBays way of trying to damage PWCC's rep for leaving.

They likely have lots of proof of shilling, and other shenanigans, regarding PWCC but because of the cash flow, never cashed that card in, until now.

Yeah maybe Brentsy pushed their luck taking their high end auction offsite. I am sure the revenue was nice but come on, this is ebay, a company with a market cap of 50 billion dollars.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Now PWCC seems to be proactively closing listings out too!! Darn it!!! I was trying to get that Bird rookie PSA 9 for $50k!

You done good...They would have bid you up to 100K Private shill bidding you the trimmed card anyway. You were lucky

[Golf History]

https://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/blo...ePfPjaqu0zxCXY

[Snowman]

Wow! Pretty crazy turn of events today. I've read a lot of conspiracy theories so far, some rather comical. I think a few observations are probably worth noting though, if trying to figure out what's actually happening behind the scenes. I'm just speculating and exercising my critical thinking skills though here, so take this with a grain of salt. I don't know anyone on the inside at either company who is in charge of making these decisions.

A few observations:

1 - PWCC has been working on their own separate platform to compete against eBay. Their Premier Auction in July was the first launch of part of their new independent platform. This is just the tip of the iceburg. As they've stated in their response to the eBay letter, they have much bigger ambitions that are soon to launch.

2 - Thus far, eBay has only banned PWCC. They didn't ban Probstein, which has gotten just as much heat on the forums as PWCC regarding this topic.

3 - PWCC's definition of "shill bidding" is perhaps peculiarly worded on their website. "Shill bidding is a bid placed without the intention to honor it - regardless of who placed the bid." https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/faq

4 - I believe it is rather common for many auction houses to expressly allow shill bidding in their TOS (or so I've read)

5 - In the past, eBay has repeatedly demonstrated that they couldn't care less about shill bidding (I recently created a thread on this topic).

6 - Historically, eBay has not taken well to competition over the years, nor criticism. They have bought out numerous start-up auction sites over the years in an effort to maintain their monopoly, and I'm sure everyone here is familiar with the recent news articles about former eBay employees who were recently sentenced to prison for cyberstalking a couple from Massachusetts who published articles criticizing eBay.


What does this all mean? What's actually going on here?

I don't buy for a second that this is eBay's attempt at cracking down on shill bidding. That's bullshit. If eBay wanted to crack down on this, they would have done so a long time ago, and they would have done it from the inside. They are the ones with all of the relevant bidding behavior and user data. Not the sellers. They can easily crack down on shill bidding, but they've chosen not to, likely because it's a project that would take money out of their pockets.

To me, this smells like it's one of two things.
1) The most likely scenario to me is that eBay is pissed off at PWCC because PWCC basically built their brand on eBay's platform and now they think they are big enough that they can just create their own platform to compete against eBay, taking hundreds of millions of dollars of business along with them, so eBay decided to tarnish their brand on their way out the door. Sort of the "you can't quit, you're fired!" approach.
2) The not-so-recent FBI investigation into the sports card market has begun to finally shown its teeth after dragging along for many years in silence, and they are somehow just now knocking on eBay's door, asking for records on PWCC's bidding activity. I find this to be a rather low likelihood though for a multitude of reasons, the least of which is eBay's otherwise couldn't-care-less approach to shill bidding in general. If eBay were feeling heat from the FBI, they would have tightened up shill bidding long before now.

Also note that eBay's wording is rather suspect to me. "Individuals associated with PWCC"... Really? That's the best they could do? Notice what they didn't say. "PWCC is engaged in shill bidding." or "PWCC personnel is engaged with shill bidding." or "PWCC employees have engaged in shill bidding". This email was without question, carefully crafted by eBay's legal team and likely signed off on by the CEO prior to being sent out. This is a strategically worded email. "Individuals associated with PWCC" to me reads as "people who consigned with PWCC", not PWCC employees. It's reads like a cleverly worded lawyer trick that has the intention of misleading its audience into believing that PWCC employees are shill bidding their eBay listings, but is worded just soft enough that if challenged in court (which it will be) they can simply say that they meant the people who consigned with PWCC were doing the shill bidding, not PWCC themselves.

Based on PWCC's response, this came out of left field. If eBay were truly just concerned about shill bidding, they wouldn't have just blindsided one of their top sellers on the entire platform. PWCC sold hundreds of millions of dollars last year alone on eBay. They would have had a meeting with Brentsy to discuss how serious they are about preventing shill bidding at the very least. They would have coordinated on this effort if preventing shill bidding was the goal. And if they had done that already, then this wouldn't have come out of left field for PWCC (which appears to be clearly the case here).

And as far as preventing shill bidding goes, PWCC has actually done far more than eBay or any other consigner I've encountered to combat this. They send you emails warning you to confirm that you intend to actually purchase an item after placing a bid if you haven't bought from them previously (I have this very email in my inbox somewhere). Otherwise they will cancel your bid. You must be vetted by thier finance team in order to participate in their Premier Auctions (I've been through this too), and if you win an item in any of their auctions but don't pay for it, they will ban your account and you won't be able to bid on their aucitons again. These are all steps to prevent shill bidding. What more can you really expect them to do? They are a consignment company. They're not eBay themselves. They don't have access to all the user data and bid history of everyone like eBay does. There's only so much they can actually do to prevent shill bidding. Most of what can be done is and should be eBay's responsibility, not PWCC's.

That said, if it were to come out that PWCC has some top-secret operation in place to where they've hired an army of North Korean hackers to create thousands of fake eBay accounts who shill bid all of their auctions for them, or Brentsy and crew have shill bidding sessions themselves at the office, then that'd be something rather extraordinary, but I highly doubt this is the case. At best, they might have a disagreement on what the definition of "shill bidding" is to begin with. Remember, Brentsy defines a shill bid as a bid with no intention of making payment if you win regardless of who you are or if you have any association with the consigner, whereas maybe eBay thinks it's a bid placed on behalf of the consigner regardless of whether or not they plan to proceed with payment, should they happen to win.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

‘When elephants fight, the grass gets trampled.’

Although that idiom has a different connotation, I'm wondering if this move will finally be the first step in an overall easing of (skyrocketing) prices. Without their shilled prices clogging up the "Auction Prices Realized" database, perhaps 'real' sales will now define the price points.

I don't think this changes much at all in terms of the overall market. The people doing the shill bidding are the people sending in consignments and flippers who are trying to artificially inflate sold listings prices of cards that they own. They won't stop just because PWCC is gone. All those cards are just going to get sent to other consignment companies. They're still going to shill bid these auctions, they're just going to be doing it with Probstein or 4SC or whoever else now.

The responsibility to prevent shill bidding lies solely on eBay's shoulders, not the consignment companies.

[cannonballsun]

The banning of PWCC is a huge and drastic move by eBay, a move that will surely cost them money. As businesses are always driven by the desire to make money, first and foremost, there must be a very compelling reason for them to do it. The only reason that makes sense to me is that the long awaited FBI investigation is coming to a close, and PWCC is going to be hit with Mastro-like charges. EBay wants to separate themselves from PWCC, and that investigation, and those charges.
Of course, this is only my opinion. I have no facts to back this up.
I can't see eBay doing this out of spite because PWCC is going to make their own auction site. A business that operates on spite is a very unprofessional business, and all their execs should be canned, if that's what they are doing.
As always, time will tell, but this is a huge move. By the way, I didn't get the email from eBay. I do believe I am on PWCC's email list as I receive email from them all the time.
I did buy one item from PWCC, but I believe it was the only one I ever bought from them. It was an large, ungraded lot of 1962 Jell-O cards. That is my number one collecting interest, so I went for it. I have bid on other items that they have for sale, but I always get outbid. Their items generally sell for higher prices than I am willing to pay.

[mrreality68]

Alot happened in a very very short time.

We will have to wait and see if there are any further explanations from either side and
Time will tell what the fallout is from it

Stay Tuned

[felada]

Originally Posted by perezfan

The part in bold is just laughable. It was carefully worded to read, "PWCC's employees have never engaged in any behavior that violates ebay's agreements and policies."

But note how they never claimed anything about its owners!

Wasn’t there a thread a few years back where someone posted text messages with pwcc encouraging someone to bid on their own auction item to drive up the price

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

to all of those who are saying Ebay will miss PWCC's money:

PWCC did around 200 million in sales on Ebay last year. The rumor is they pay somewhere between 1 and 3% to Ebay. That's $2 - $6 Million for the year. In 2020 Ebay did over 10 BILLION in revenue.

For those of you saying Ebay doesn't want the competition from PWCC:

Unless PWCC is opening a site where users can sell their own items, it's not competition, it's just another auction company.

Big players in the hobby are fly specks in the world of fortune 500 companies. Does that mean Ebay didn't do this out of spite? Hell no. It could be very similar to an old tenet of racketeering. You make an example of one guy so the next guy doesn't get any bright ideas.

[Jersey City Giants]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Atleast they will be gone from eBay.

can't see their own platform working nearly as well for them, especially since it was confirmed to all of us that they were shilling. I won't be bidding anymore for sure.

PS - Just got my 1921 Exhibit from you on ebay, many thanks.

[topcat61]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Maybe this is a CYA move by eBay. Could they have got notice form an outside entity that a investigation is going on.

A little late if you ask me, I still predict a big nothing burger.

That's a good way to look at it - A CYA. But the FBI and Justice Department took their time with Bill Mastro and Greg Marino to secure an airtight case. The FBI almost never divulges their moves so if ebay is making statements like this, they probably worried that digital forensic experts could implicate the company. The FBI has been looking into this since 2018 and put in a lot of time and effort for "nothing". The ones who really know what's going on behind the scenes are not those in the hobby, but the FBI and Justice Department. It'll be up to them to decide if there's enough evidence to go forward and I suspect it'll take a judge to have a good understanding of a government case like this as well. I think it was Ronald Guzman who presided over Mastro and the FBI has hobby experts too so it should be interesting going forward.
I also put blame on PSA too.

[Nunzio11]

Originally Posted by Jersey City Giants

can't see their own platform working nearly as well for them, especially since it was confirmed to all of us that they were shilling. I won't be bidding anymore for sure.

PS - Just got my 1921 Exhibit from you on ebay, many thanks.

That was my thought. I'm sure this is not the publicity and fanfare PWCC was looking for when launching their own platform. Imagine the shenanigans that will go on when bidders no longer have the guise of Ebay protection to fall back on if they feel there were wronged by unethical practices.

[Republicaninmass]

As the housing bubble inflated and people got in over their head Congress was involved in "steroids in baseball"


This time, maybe they will go after sportscards as a nice distraction.

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

to all of those who are saying Ebay will miss PWCC's money:

PWCC did around 200 million in sales on Ebay last year. The rumor is they pay somewhere between 1 and 3% to Ebay. That's $2 - $6 Million for the year. In 2020 Ebay did over 10 BILLION in revenue.

For those of you saying Ebay doesn't want the competition from PWCC:

Unless PWCC is opening a site where users can sell their own items, it's not competition, it's just another auction company.

Big players in the hobby are fly specks in the world of fortune 500 companies. Does that mean Ebay didn't do this out of spite? Hell no. It could be very similar to an old tenet of racketeering. You make an example of one guy so the next guy doesn't get any bright ideas.

It's true that PWCC's money is not very much relative to eBay as a whole. But if the FBI announced that it was pressing charges or investigating eBay for colluding with PWCC on defrauding bidders, that would result in huge and very unwelcome negative publicity that would have a big effect on all of eBay. They certainly want to avoid that, so my guess is that the FBI showed eBay the evidence they have on PWCC, and eBay is scrambling to distance themselves from PWCC and show the Feds that they are not going to tolerate that behavior any more.

[savedfrommyspokes]

From PWCC's site:

PWCC MARKETPLACE/EBAY UPDATE
PWCC Marketplace/eBay Update
We will no longer be selling through eBay and all PWCC listings will be removed from eBay immediately. Premier Auction listings will be unaffected as they are listed on the PWCC platform and the August Premier Auction will close on August 21st. The September Premier Auction is still scheduled to start on September 1st. To read our official statement click here.

What is the update on PWCC and eBay and what's impacted?
We will no longer be selling through eBay and all PWCC listings will be removed from eBay. Premier Auction listings will be unaffected and the August Premier Auction will close on August 21st. The September Premier Auction is still scheduled to start on September 1st.

What is PWCC's stance on shill bidding?
Shill bidding is a bid placed without the intention to honor it - regardless of who placed the bid. As outlined in our Marketplace Tenets PWCC has clear rules that no one may place a bid unless that bid is intended to win the item - not consignors, friends of consignors, people who own other versions of the card, etc. PWCC has never engaged in nor condoned the practice of shill bidding or manipulating the card market. PWCC is proud of the work we do to ensure a trusted marketplace and vehemently deny eBay's claims regarding shill bidding.

Can I still sell my cards with PWCC?
Since March, our team of developers has been focused on building and improving the Premier Auction experience which is currently live and has always been independent of eBay.

Sales through PWCCMarketplace.com will be the foundation for the future Monthly Auction, Flash Auction, and Fixed Price Marketplace. The initial design of these marketplaces is in place, and we’re committed to make them the most user-friendly and trusted tools in the industry. Although this platform shift happened sooner than we planned, we are excited to relaunch the marketplaces on our own website soon.

Currently, PWCC currently conducts Premier Auction each month for cards with a market value over $25,000 and we can always look to help you find a buyer privately.

I have cards up for bid in the August Monthly Auction. What will happen to my cards?
All cards that have sold in the August Monthly Auction will complete the sale process as normal, and you will receive proceeds from the sale on the payout day. Any item that did not yet sell in the August Monthly Auction will be removed from eBay and will be placed in your Vault free of charge and listed in the PWCC-hosted Monthly Auction, which will be available soon.

I submitted cards for the September Monthly Auction. What will happen to these cards?
September Monthly Auction items will be placed into your Vault, free of charge, ready to be sold in our future PWCC-hosted Monthly Auction, which will be available soon. If you do not already have a Vault Account, we will help you create one.

What if I'd like my cards returned to me?
Should you prefer to have your unsold cards returned, please contact customer service and we will do so at our expense.

My card(s) sold in the first few days of August Monthly Auction. Will I still be paid out?
Yes, all cards that have closed will complete the collections process, and if paid by the buyer, will be paid out in full. If the buyer does not remit payment, items will be placed into your Vault, free of charge, ready to be sold in our future PWCC-hosted Monthly Auction which will be available soon.

Can I still use Flash Auction?
Flash Auctions are currently on hold until we can soon offer them again on our own website.

Can I use Fixed Price to sell cards?
The Fixed Price Marketplace is currently on hold until we can soon offer them again on our own website.

What happens if I have a card currently live in Flash Auction or live on Fixed Price?
All items previously listed for a Flash Auction have been placed back into your Vault, ready to be sold under our future Flash Marketplace. All items previously listed for Fixed Price will soon be placed back into your Vault, ready to be sold under our future Fixed Price Marketplace.

What happens to items in my Vault?
Nothing. Those items are still safe and fully-insured, stored in our secure facility, operated exclusively by PWCC.

What are the fees to remove items from the Vault?
Fees to fulfill out of the Vault remain unchanged and are outlined here. Existing promotional rates also remain unchanged.

Can I still send cards from eBay to the Vault?
Yes you can. We are still accepting Vault submissions, and we are still honoring the FREEVAULT promo until Sept. 30th. Items can still be stored in our Vault, ready to be sold either in our existing Premier Auction or in our future PWCC-hosted Monthly, Flash, or Fixed-Price Marketplaces.

Can I still take out a loan through PWCC Capital?
Yes, we would be pleased to consider you for a loan. Contact our Customer Service Team via email or chat to start the process.

Is the FreeVault Promo still going to be accepted for safely storing cards?
Yes. The FREEVAULT promo is live until Sept. 30th and items can still be stored in our Vault, ready to be sold either in our existing Premier Auction or in our future PWCC-hosted Monthly, Flash, or Fixed-Price Marketplaces.

What happens to the current cards in the August Premier Auction?
Premier Auction is hosted on our site and has no affiliation with eBay. Premier Auction will continue to run business as usual.

Will the Premier Auction still end on Saturday, August 21 at 7pm?
Yes, Premier Auction is still scheduled to end at 7PM PT on August 21st with extended bidding happening immediately after.

I want to keep my Premier Auction purchase in the Vault. Is that service still available?
Yes. If you win an item in Premier Auction then you have the option of storing it for free in the Vault.

How can you assure me that shill bidding is not taking place in the current and future Premier Auctions?
As part of our Marketplace Tenets, PWCC and our staff and affiliates have no visibility into any bidders' maximum bid. This information is stored in a third-party service and no one from PWCC or any affiliates of the sellers can view it, by specific design.

All bidders must be approved to participate in the Premier Auction. To apply, submit a brief application with your eBay ID and two references if applicable (it takes less than two minutes). Our team will review your application, contact you within 24 hours if additional information is needed, and notify you of your approval. This process can take several days, so please submit your application early.

What happens when somebody is caught placing a bid they don't intend to honor, known as shill bidding?
Our Marketplace Trust team is extremely proactive in monitoring bidding. We have placed permanent blocks on any bidder who does not pay. Refer to the Marketplace Tenets for more details on our monitoring procedures.

What will happen to my cards once they're pulled from eBay? WilI I get a notification that they have indeed been removed?
All Fixed Price and Flash Auction listings that did not sell and were removed from eBay will automatically be placed back into your Vault. All unsold items in our August Monthly Auction and submissions received for future auctions will be placed in your Vault, free of charge, ready to be sold either in our existing Premier Auction or in our future PWCC-hosted Monthly, Flash, or Fixed-Price Marketplaces which will be available soon.

What can I expect from PWCC in terms of future plans and operations?
We are excited to roll out our own, proprietary Marketplaces specifically designed to meet the unique needs of this market and continue to offer excellent services to our clients.

Can I trust PWCC as a business moving forward?
Absolutely. We know trust is built over time and through a consistent experience. It is our hope that we have earned that trust from you and that we will continue to do so with our new platform. We are deeply committed to ensuring the bidding environment you deserve.

[guy3050]

Originally Posted by felada

Wasn’t there a thread a few years back where someone posted text messages with pwcc encouraging someone to bid on their own auction item to drive up the price

....

[packs]

I'm in the you can't compete with eBay camp. I don't see why eBay would ban a seller doing business on their platform out of a fear that the seller will overtake eBay. There's no practical way to do that and you'd never touch eBay's overall revenue. I don't see how that could be a real motivating factor. The loss in business is easily absorbed by millions of knick knacks posted every day for the rest of eternity.

[rjackson44]

what a shock

[mrreality68]

Long and interesting statement from PWCC.

Very Well Written

The reality they said it the way they said it to cover themselves and try to inspire confidence and trust in them (regardless if it works or not)

The used ebay to build their brand and customer base and now that they are bigger they wanted to build their own web platform do their own auctions and control there way and maximize there profits.

Ebay may have sped up the timeline once they decided enough was enough and they all go their merry ways