1919 Ruth vs 2021 Ohtani

[Peter_Spaeth]

There's a pervasive bias on this forum against newer players, in my opinion. Ask almost anyone here for their all time team or all time top 15 players and nobody who came up post 1980 will be on it I would bet.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There's a pervasive bias on this forum against newer players, in my opinion. Ask almost anyone here for their all time team or all time top 15 players and nobody who came up post 1980 will be on it I would bet.

I'm not against modern players but this is Babe Ruth. No one is ever going to be Babe Ruth. But also Ohtani is good this year. He was pretty terrible in 2020 and not all that inspiring in 2019 either. I think it's a little premature to be talking about him as an all time great.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm not against modern players but this is Babe Ruth. No one is ever going to be Babe Ruth. But also Ohtani is good this year. He was pretty terrible in 2020 and not all that inspiring in 2019 either. I think it's a little premature to be talking about him as an all time great.

Nobody is talking about him in those terms are they? Just acknowledging this season.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nobody is talking about him in those terms are they? Just acknowledging this season.

Your very first (of the next 20 comments to come in this thread) mentions All Time Team. So yes, YOU are.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Your very first (of the next 20 comments to come in this thread) mentions All Time Team. So yes, YOU are.

I just think that it is amazing what he is Ohtani is doing and it makes baseball exciting.
But right now it is a 1 year comparison but Othani should be the MVP for his accomplishments but comparing it to Ruth is difficult because of different era’s but also Othani is doing as a DH vs Ruth playing everyday in the field

[Leon]

I don't even know who this new guy is . But what I will say is that the players in 1919 and the players in 2021 had each of their same issues for the times.... So in that respect, to me, the eras are insignificant. They are the same for each.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There's a pervasive bias on this forum against newer players, in my opinion. Ask almost anyone here for their all time team or all time top 15 players and nobody who came up post 1980 will be on it I would bet.

This is where you talked about the all time team in a thread about Ohtani.

Anyway, I think when people say Babe Ruth it's to bring a false prestige to the conversation. Ohtani is not like Babe Ruth. Nobody will be. But he is having a great season and doing incredible things on the field. His season should be talked about in those terms.

[christopher.herman]

Thread over.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by christopher.herman

Thread over.

Love it

Great photos

Amazing what members of this forum have

[frankbmd]

Shohei did it with sushi and sake

and not ステロイド

What is the single season record for home runs without ステロイド?

61???

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

This is where you talked about the all time team in a thread about Ohtani.

Anyway, I think when people say Babe Ruth it's to bring a false prestige to the conversation. Ohtani is not like Babe Ruth. Nobody will be. But he is having a great season and doing incredible things on the field. His season should be talked about in those terms.

Nothing I said remotely suggests I think Ohtani is an all time great. It's a general point about bias against modern players which seemed to me to be informing some of the posts taking issue with the comparison of Ohtani's SEASON to Ruth's season.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There's a pervasive bias on this forum against newer players, in my opinion. Ask almost anyone here for their all time team or all time top 15 players and nobody who came up post 1980 will be on it I would bet.

There is, but I'd still guess most people here would have Bonds and Clemens somewhere in their top 15. Nobody else who came up since 1980 belongs in that discussion yet.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

There is, but I'd still guess most people here would have Bonds and Clemens somewhere in their top 15. Nobody else who came up since 1980 belongs in that discussion yet.

A Rod and Maddux.

A Rod is top 5 in two of the four Baseball Reference HOF metrics.

[vintagewhitesox]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There's a pervasive bias on this forum against newer players, in my opinion. Ask almost anyone here for their all time team or all time top 15 players and nobody who came up post 1980 will be on it I would bet.

Well said.
Also, when Ruth played, there was a large segment of players who were not allowed to play in the majors.
If Ruth had to play against the negro league all stars of his time, would he be as dominant? He was great for his time, and Im not taking anything away from him. but I dont think it's a fair comparison given the lack of opposition Ruth had.
Ruth didnt play coast to coast or face night pitching. What Otani is doing now has never been seen.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by vintagewhitesox

Well said.
Also, when Ruth played, there was a large segment of players who were not allowed to play in the majors.
If Ruth had to play against the negro league all stars of his time, would he be as dominant? He was great for his time, and Im not taking anything away from him. but I dont think it's a fair comparison given the lack of opposition Ruth had.
Ruth didnt play coast to coast or face night pitching. What Otani is doing now has never been seen.

Ruth played exhibition games against Negro League teams and he was just as dominant. Ruth played in an era with only 16 teams compared to 30 teams today. The idea that he somehow played against weaker competition is an opinion that can't be backed up by facts.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

Ruth played exhibition games against Negro League teams and he was just as dominant. Ruth played in an era with only 16 teams compared to 30 teams today. The idea that he somehow played against weaker competition is an opinion that can't be backed up by facts.

Do we have stats from these exhibition games or is this just loose anecdote? Also hard to draw any conclusions from games that didn't count. BTW a good argument you could also make might be that unlike today, the best athletes weren't funneled so much to other sports.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by rats60

Ruth played exhibition games against Negro League teams and he was just as dominant. Ruth played in an era with only 16 teams compared to 30 teams today. The idea that he somehow played against weaker competition is an opinion that can't be backed up by facts.

Of course he played against weaker competition. That's not difficult to prove. Just look at the ratio of the size of the available pool of talent that players were drawn from vs the number of players who played in the league. Baseball is an international sport today. Your talking 10-fold the talent pool today but only twice as many teams. It's not even remotely close.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Of course he played against weaker competition. That's not difficult to prove. Just look at the ratio of the size of the available pool of talent that players were drawn from vs the number of players who played in the league. Baseball is an international sport today. Your talking 10-fold the talent pool today but only twice as many teams. It's not even remotely close.

How many great athletes back then opted for football or basketball?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by rats60

Ruth played exhibition games against Negro League teams and he was just as dominant. Ruth played in an era with only 16 teams compared to 30 teams today. The idea that he somehow played against weaker competition is an opinion that can't be backed up by facts.

The US has more than 3x as many people now AND the game is integrated AND the game is worldwide. The idea he DIDN'T play against weaker competition can't be backed up by facts.

Not to mention the OBVIOUS differences in physical strength and skill development.