Let's talk about Hall of Fame candidates who have been "neglected"

[Peter_Spaeth]

Say Rivera comes in to pitch the 9th with a 2 run lead, and succeeds. The popular narrative is, Sandman shut the door!! But the statistical fact is, most of the time, any solid major league starter would have done the same.

[packs]

Emotional tension and excitement is why pitching the 9th is so difficult. The game is played by people. When you say scoring 3 runs in the 4th inning to win 3 to 2 is the same as scoring 3 runs in the 9th to win 3 to 2, I think you are removing the human element, which cannot be removed from a game played by people.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Emotional tension and excitement is why pitching the 9th is so difficult. The game is played by people. When you say scoring 3 runs in the 4th inning to win 3 to 2 is the same as scoring 3 runs in the 9th to win 3 to 2, I think you are removing the human element, which cannot be removed from a game played by people.

Meh. How much emotional tension and excitement is there in your typical game?

[packs]

Apparently a lot because there aren't many elite closers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Apparently a lot because there aren't many elite closers.

Circular argument.

[abothebear]

I don’t deny the human element. But I think those who elevate closers overvalue control of the human element and under apply it. It isn’t as big of a factor as the announcers make it to be, and it certainly isn’t something that is rare among pitchers. Any competent starter demonstrates ample Human element composure through many high leverage and high drama moments throughout their six plus innings of work.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

Emotional tension and excitement is why pitching the 9th is so difficult. The game is played by people. When you say scoring 3 runs in the 4th inning to win 3 to 2 is the same as scoring 3 runs in the 9th to win 3 to 2, I think you are removing the human element, which cannot be removed from a game played by people.

I disagree. These are professionals who play 162 games times 9 (now 7 sometimes) innings. One inning is basically the same as another. And if there is extra urgency in the final inning, that could cut either way: Make a hitter more focused to succeed or more nervous to fail, make the pitcher more likely to excel or make him more likely to choke, and same with the fielders, baserunners, and so on.

The ninth inning is the most overrated concept in baseball. If I'm a manager with a top reliever and a mediocre one, I'll bring the best one in to stop a 7th inning rally where there are 2 on with just one out, and maybe use the mediocre one to start the ninth, rather than the other way around.

[packs]

How can you disagree on the tension of the 9th inning? Surely we've all played baseball at some point. I find this really hard to believe.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

How can you disagree on the tension of the 9th inning? Surely we've all played baseball at some point. I find this really hard to believe.

1. First, these are pros. They can handle any little bit of increased tension.
2. Does that tension make it easier or harder for someone, like a relief pitcher, to succeed? That can easily go either way. I'd rather pitch against a batter who is feeling pressure rather than one who is loose.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

How can you disagree on the tension of the 9th inning? Surely we've all played baseball at some point. I find this really hard to believe.

And these guys have played baseball their whole lives, and lots of it. It's par for the course for them.

[GeoPoto]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And these guys have played baseball their whole lives, and lots of it. It's par for the course for them.

Since you brought up golf, I would suggest that comparing the ninth to earlier innings is like comparing major championships to regular tour events -- both involve similar pressure, but majors are greater pressure. And viewed as the ultimate test.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I disagree. These are professionals who play 162 games times 9 (now 7 sometimes) innings. One inning is basically the same as another. And if there is extra urgency in the final inning, that could cut either way: Make a hitter more focused to succeed or more nervous to fail, make the pitcher more likely to excel or make him more likely to choke, and same with the fielders, baserunners, and so on.

The ninth inning is the most overrated concept in baseball. If I'm a manager with a top reliever and a mediocre one, I'll bring the best one in to stop a 7th inning rally where there are 2 on with just one out, and maybe use the mediocre one to start the ninth, rather than the other way around.

Terry Francona was doing that a couple of years back with Andrew Miller as I recall. Even earlier in the game if he felt a hold then and there was key. Sort of blew up some sacrosanct notions of a closer.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Terry Francona was doing that a couple of years back with Andrew Miller as I recall. Even earlier in the game if he felt a hold then and there was key. Sort of blew up some sacrosanct notions of a closer.

It makes sense. Outs are more important to get when the other team has base runners. Outs are not more important to get just because it's the ninth inning.