Game Used Bats: PSA vs Mears

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Make sure you read what you're getting with PSA:
https://www.psacard.com/services/batgradingstandards



So PSA can rate something a 5 on a "Game Used" scale without it actually being used in a game. Always read the fine print.

Its not a game used scale, its authentication. An unused game ready bat is still authentic.

[swarmee]

When the grade itself contains the abbreviation "GU" in it, I'm not sure I agree with you. But almost none of those grades ever required the player to have used the bat himself, just to show wear. I'm sure many buyers of these grades don't realize what they're getting. Maybe they do?

[Shoeless Moe]

MEARS blows PSA out of the water.


I definitely prefer a MEARS.

[Bugsy]

I think it all depends. Nobody can be an expert on every single player's use characteristics. I have seen errors made by both, including wrong dating periods and misidentifying players. As for MEARS, I have seen some COAs that are really skimpy on details and others that are almost packets of info. PSA's standard letter is better than skimpy MEARS, but maybe not as thorough as the more robust MEARS worksheets and accompanying documentation. Are you looking to get a bat graded or talking about a graded bat? I think the quality of a letter speaks for itself when you read the details that it covers. I would say disregard the grader and read the actual documentation they present.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

I think it all depends. Nobody can be an expert on every single player's use characteristics. I have seen errors made by both, including wrong dating periods and misidentifying players. As for MEARS, I have seen some COAs that are really skimpy on details and others that are almost packets of info. PSA's standard letter is better than skimpy MEARS, but maybe not as thorough as the more robust MEARS worksheets and accompanying documentation. Are you looking to get a bat graded or talking about a graded bat? I think the quality of a letter speaks for itself when you read the details that it covers. I would say disregard the grader and read the actual documentation they present.

This is, of course, very good advice. In my opinion, PSA/DNA tends to be stricter,---or narrower, if they disappoint you. At times, you may think that the PSA grade fails to consider something that you think is very relevant. MEARS will sometimes take into consideration a great range of interesting details. A big difference is that MEARS doesn't follow the Vince Malta system, as PSA does, and this means that there may be differences about dating, and thus about use. I should say that most of the bats in my collection are pre-1930, so those who collect newer bats may have very different experiences.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by Mark

This is, of course, very good advice. In my opinion, PSA/DNA tends to be stricter,---or narrower, if they disappoint you. At times, you may think that the PSA grade fails to consider something that you think is very relevant. MEARS will sometimes take into consideration a great range of interesting details. A big difference is that MEARS doesn't follow the Vince Malta system, as PSA does, and this means that there may be differences about dating, and thus about use. I should say that most of the bats in my collection are pre-1930, so those who collect newer bats may have very different experiences.

You're spot on about dating. I saw a Aaron bat on ebay years back dated to 1960 based on Malta's book so it was a team index bat because it didn't match records. But Mears called it a 1957 and used by Aaron so it sold for alot more than it should have.

And just last month a member on this group bought a Terry bat from Mears. But after posting photos in the pickup thread, another member pointed out that it actually wasn't from the dates that Mears said.

[Jobu]

Can you offer a bit more info on what the Vince Malta system is and how there can be dating differences?

Originally Posted by Mark

...MEARS doesn't follow the Vince Malta system, as PSA does, and this means that there may be differences about dating, and thus about use...

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Jobu

Can you offer a bit more info on what the Vince Malta system is and how there can be dating differences?

Long-time collector Vince Malta examined thousands of game used bats, and he devised a method for classifying when they were made. He provides a number of clues for determining, more or less precisely, which year or years a Louisville Slugger bat could have been manufactured. His methods are explained in his now standard book A Complete Reference to Louisville Slugger Professional Bats.. The book is indispensible because it also contains records of the bats that were ordered from Hillerich and Bradsby by hall of fame players. Records are pretty much non-existent before 1920, but by the early-mid 20's, there are records that tell us about the weight, length, and style of bats each HoF player actually ordered from LS.

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Refer.../dp/0979137004

How can experts differ about the dates of manufacture? As I understand it, Malta studied when players returned certain bat models to the factory to be duplicated (or modified slightly) by H&B, and he dates the manufacture of the bat to the year it was returned to the factory. At MEARS, they hypothesize that a given bat model could have been used for a year or more before examples started being returned to the factory for duplictation/ modification. I'm sure others know more about it than I do.

[eastonfalcon19]

There is one thing that always has confused me when it comes to PSA DNA bat authentication. I have a bat which was authenticated by PSA DNA and it came back as an Index bat. Now in the letter it does state that the player ordered that length during that time period, 12 bats to be exact. Now I've seen his bats from that time period in auction catalogs measuring the same length as mine and they are considered Pro Model bats. Those bats have nothing as far as characteristics that mine doesn't have. I've seen this with other players too. To me that's a grey area in which affects the outcome of the bat and it's price if I were to ever sell the bat. So if a particular player orders that model, length, weight, etc how is not a Pro Model and written off as a Pro Stock? I get that there's a small chance the player used it and could never find out if he did or not but there's still a chance he did especially if other's are being authenticated as such. Hopefully this makes sense.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by eastonfalcon19

There is one thing that always has confused me when it comes to PSA DNA bat authentication. I have a bat which was authenticated by PSA DNA and it came back as an Index bat. Now in the letter it does state that the player ordered that length during that time period, 12 bats to be exact. Now I've seen his bats from that time period in auction catalogs measuring the same length as mine and they are considered Pro Model bats. Those bats have nothing as far as characteristics that mine doesn't have. I've seen this with other players too. To me that's a grey area in which affects the outcome of the bat and it's price if I were to ever sell the bat. So if a particular player orders that model, length, weight, etc how is not a Pro Model and written off as a Pro Stock? I get that there's a small chance the player used it and could never find out if he did or not but there's still a chance he did especially if other's are being authenticated as such. Hopefully this makes sense.

Can you post the letter?

[eastonfalcon19]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Can you post the letter?

The letter also states about the notations on the knob which IMO was probably done by a kid after the bat's playing days. My bat has the characteristics of Pro Model bats. Cleat marks, ball marks and green bat rack marks. I'm sure there are plenty of bats that are authenticated as Pro Model that don't have all of the necessary "characteristics" but because they are in the players ordering records they are pro model. I find it hard to believe that every bat that is authenticated as pro model has provenance and characteristics of that player. Again I know there's no way of knowing if this was game used by the player but I don't think it should be considered a Index bat when there is a chance he did order/ use it.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by eastonfalcon19

... Index bat.
... Pro Model bats.
... Pro Stock.

Adding "game used" to that list, would somebody be so kind as to educate a guy who doesn't collect bats as to the differences between the types?

And, feel free to add any that I have missed, I'm just curious.

Thanx,
Doug


PS - while I don't collect bats, I do have one. From a player with a career slash line of 1.000 / 1.000 / 2.000

[AstroJake09]

I'm curious as to how much it costs to have PSA authenticate a bat? Does it differ by player and era or is it a flat fee?

[rlevy]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Adding "game used" to that list, would somebody be so kind as to educate a guy who doesn't collect bats as to the differences between the types?

And, feel free to add any that I have missed, I'm just curious.

Thanx,
Doug


PS - while I don't collect bats, I do have one. From a player with a career slash line of 1.000 / 1.000 / 2.000

Doug, very cool bat of Roy Gleason, a member of the 1963 World Champ Dodgers. I'm sure a lot of Dodger collectors would jump thru hoops for that one in order to complete their 1963 set.

Regarding the MEARS vs PSA question, PSA is certainly the one that auction houses prefer. I've consigned bats that have letters from both, and the auction house uses the PSA letter in their listing and doesn't even list the one from MEARS, even if the letter grade is higher.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

I think it all depends. Nobody can be an expert on every single player's use characteristics. I have seen errors made by both, including wrong dating periods and misidentifying players. As for MEARS, I have seen some COAs that are really skimpy on details and others that are almost packets of info. PSA's standard letter is better than skimpy MEARS, but maybe not as thorough as the more robust MEARS worksheets and accompanying documentation. Are you looking to get a bat graded or talking about a graded bat? I think the quality of a letter speaks for itself when you read the details that it covers. I would say disregard the grader and read the actual documentation they present.

The standard MEARS COA that comes their auctions is worthless, its just a printout of the auction description. When people ask about MEARS COAs, I assume they mean these since they are way more plentiful.

As you stated, the full letter and worksheet are much better.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Jim65

The standard MEARS COA that comes their auctions is worthless, its just a printout of the auction description. When people ask about MEARS COAs, I assume they mean these since they are way more plentiful.

As you stated, the full letter and worksheet are much better.

Yes, no comparison. The Mears full letters are very accurate and complete.

[bigfanNY]

For newer player bats I try my best to put the bat in the players hands. Nothing like a photo of the exact bat in players hand during a game. I would think many players who valued particular bats regardless of era should be able to photo match. Joe Sewell is the obvious example. (Lol).
As for the question since I collect mostly newer bats I prefer PSA 9 or 10 bats over Mears.