Fake 1915 Cracker Jack in PSA holder...wow!

[Jgrace]

Originally Posted by bnorth

+1 that would be a cool card to own. I have owned 3 counterfeit PSA graded cards in the past.

I own one - a fake 1991 Topps Desert Shield that got past PSA. That was before I learned to not take the authenticity of graded cards for granted.

[ruth-gehrig]

A counterfeit "authenticated" card thread with pictures sounds fun

[jchcollins]

What is PSA's move if he says "Sorry, you can't have it back." LOL.

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

What is PSA's move if he says "Sorry, you can't have it back." LOL.

PSA moves on, then a bidding war occurs here

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by oldeboo

PSA moves on, then a bidding war occurs here

Sell it to your neighbor for $1. Then have the neighbor file under PSA's guarantee, LOL.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

What is PSA's move if he says "Sorry, you can't have it back." LOL.

Just a guess. Remove the cert from their data base and sue him when someone else tries to cash in on the guarantee.

I would also guess after he talks to PSA we will not hear the details of what took place.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Just a guess. Remove the cert from their data base and sue him when someone else tries to cash in on the guarantee.

I would also guess after he talks to PSA we will not hear the details of what took place.

I would guess you are right on what happens after they talk to him. If I were PSA I would want to pay out under the guarantee (I know that a submitter is supposedly not eligible, whatever) or buy the card from him at a price worth his while to leave a good impression. But not sure they react that way. Yes, clearly this is not the first huge swing and miss PSA has had in the authenticity department. This is just the worst one I've seen aired publicly in a long time.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Hi Dave,

I just got around to reading your post explaining things and wanted to let you know that my own post about believing the card to have been switched was not meant to infer that you were the one who switched it out, but that at some point someone likely did. Sorry if you took it to mean I was questioning your integrity. I never meant to do that.

And thanks for posting the explanation.

Thanks,

Andy

[DWS44]

Howdy gang...me again.

Originally Posted by bnorth

I would also guess after he talks to PSA we will not hear the details of what took place.

I'll keep sharing until someone tells me to shut up.

Sorry for the delay...I was off yesterday, but today I was back to my day job and dealing with the card as I could around real work.

Late this afternoon, the VP from PSA called me as promised. It wasn't a very long conversation. He led off with apologies for the situation and to make a long story short, basically said mistakes happen, everyone is human, and so on. He said that he personally was not a grader, just coming from a collecting background. He asked me to email him the full details that I know of my history with the card and pics of the card, which I just did within the last half-hour or so. He said that once he received that, they would be sending me a pre-paid FedEx label to get the card back to them for re-examination to again determine if real or not. He noted that with the overwhelming outcry over the card, that the odds of it being real were pretty low (duh). He said if PSA still deemed to be real, it would be returned to me noting their findings. If determined to be reprint/counterfeit/fake, then I "would be compensated". He didn't go into any detail, and I didn't dig any deeper than that.

I asked about timeframe, noting how long it took to go through the process the first time and that I wasn't terribly interested in going back to the tail end of the line. He said it would not go through the normal processing, but would be a priority once received. Who knows...guess I'll see.

At this point, I have been contacted here and on ebay by several individuals wanting to buy the card as-is, for various reasons. I appreciate the interest and the stated goals of those that mentioned them, and mean no disrespect to anyone. I personally am more comfortable sending the card back and letting the PSA side of it play out. If for some reason they return the card back still saying it is real, then game on. If they attempt to make me whole and keep the card, so be it. If the card comes back in any other form, I'll just offer it back up for sale with the full story that its been through and let it ride. I do appreciate everyone's help on the board here and will keep in touch as things unfold as long as I am able to do so. There has been no mention of non-disclosure or anything like that, but if one comes along, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

[oldeboo]

Thank you for continuing to share your story. I'm sure you were initially excited to learn it was deemed genuine to then watch it snowball into this. You've certainly had an interesting dabble into the grading world. I'm sure they'll do what they have to do to get it off the market. That's probably the best thing and can't fault your decision. I'm positive anyone here would only want it as a novelty and keep it at that, but eventually at some point down the road it would be inherited or what have you and cause issues again.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by oldeboo

Thank you for continuing to share your story. I'm sure you were initially excited to learn it was deemed genuine to then watch it snowball into this. You've certainly had an interesting dabble into the grading world. I'm sure they'll do what they have to do to get it off the market. That's probably the best thing and can't fault your decision. I'm positive anyone here would only want it as a novelty and keep it at that, but eventually at some point down the road it would be inherited or what have you and cause issues again.

+1 to pretty much everything posted above.

I would like to have the card but honestly sending it back to PSA would be by far the best for you. Unless you have something in a email from them guaranteeing what you will get if deemed bad you will get little to nothing for all your trouble. That NDA is coming.

Have a great evening and thank you again for sharring your story.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by DWS44

Howdy gang...me again.



I'll keep sharing until someone tells me to shut up.

Sorry for the delay...I was off yesterday, but today I was back to my day job and dealing with the card as I could around real work.

Late this afternoon, the VP from PSA called me as promised. It wasn't a very long conversation. He led off with apologies for the situation and to make a long story short, basically said mistakes happen, everyone is human, and so on. He said that he personally was not a grader, just coming from a collecting background. He asked me to email him the full details that I know of my history with the card and pics of the card, which I just did within the last half-hour or so. He said that once he received that, they would be sending me a pre-paid FedEx label to get the card back to them for re-examination to again determine if real or not. He noted that with the overwhelming outcry over the card, that the odds of it being real were pretty low (duh). He said if PSA still deemed to be real, it would be returned to me noting their findings. If determined to be reprint/counterfeit/fake, then I "would be compensated". He didn't go into any detail, and I didn't dig any deeper than that.

I asked about timeframe, noting how long it took to go through the process the first time and that I wasn't terribly interested in going back to the tail end of the line. He said it would not go through the normal processing, but would be a priority once received. Who knows...guess I'll see.

At this point, I have been contacted here and on ebay by several individuals wanting to buy the card as-is, for various reasons. I appreciate the interest and the stated goals of those that mentioned them, and mean no disrespect to anyone. I personally am more comfortable sending the card back and letting the PSA side of it play out. If for some reason they return the card back still saying it is real, then game on. If they attempt to make me whole and keep the card, so be it. If the card comes back in any other form, I'll just offer it back up for sale with the full story that its been through and let it ride. I do appreciate everyone's help on the board here and will keep in touch as things unfold as long as I am able to do so. There has been no mention of non-disclosure or anything like that, but if one comes along, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Whatever they initially offer you for buying back the card, I would insist on double their amount. They would be even bigger idiots if they are petty enough to deny you. And even if they did, I'm pretty sure you would do better in the open market.

[notfast]

Do not send the card back without working out a financial agreement “if” the deem it fake.

That card will never see the light of day once you ship it to them. Ball will be in their court once they have it in hand.

[luciobar1980]

Scrolling down the thread I just knew that it would be found that PSA graded the card, and so many people here defending or not willing to believe the seller at first. SMH As if PSA has a spotless record, from either a moral or technical standpoint. I'm sure it was graded authentic as an honest mistake, which is crazy, but the way some people act as if PSA is beyond reproach, morally or technically, is beyond me.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

What is PSA's move if he says "Sorry, you can't have it back." LOL.

They retaliate by banning his account and ability submit cards in the future.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Buy raw all you want, but caveat emptor. If I'm buying raw, I would hope I know a hell of a lot more about 1915 Cracker Jack cards than PSA apparently does.

That would not be difficult, as the bar on what they know appears to be quite low.

Originally Posted by swarmee

They retaliate by banning his account and ability submit cards in the future.

You say that like it’s a bad thing. I always come back to if PSA were a doctor, lawyer, mechanic, dentist, or anyone in almost any other profession. You pay good money for an analysis of your item. When they miss, it’s “just an opinion”. If anyone else in any business came back to you and said “Well, it’s really just my opinion” after messing up the diagnosis, you’d never go back to them. For some reason our hobby keeps forgiving them for their errors.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The occasional blatant mistake is far less concerning to me than the apparent regular practice of missing, or looking past, vast numbers of altered cards.

[Directly]

Grading question--if a baseball card was cleaned/bleached what's the best any bleached card should grade if it appears to be a 5--a PR1 or 5 ?

[Madi$on18joshua]

I cant wait to hear what they offer you, I would think it would be substantial. I could see SGC paying $5k for it and starting a marketing campaign around why all TPG aren't the same.

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by Madi$on18joshua

I cant wait to hear what they offer you, I would think it would be substantial. I could see SGC paying $5k for it and starting a marketing campaign around why all TPG aren't the same.

He said 34 bucks, which were his fees

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Madi$on18joshua

I cant wait to hear what they offer you, I would think it would be substantial. I could see SGC paying $5k for it and starting a marketing campaign around why all TPG aren't the same.

I would bet big that SGC wouldn't want to open that can of worms. They have had some pretty big mistakes also. I am far from a fan of their lawyer but he is damn good at his job, can't see him telling them it would be a good idea.

[DWS44]

I could see SGC paying $5k

The estimates keep getting higher and higher since I sent it back and got squat. Before long I'll have screwed myself out of a new house and car. hehe

[swarmee]

Looks like there are even more embarrassing fakes in PSA slabs, take a look at the Tip Top Bread thread.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Looks like there are even more embarrassing fakes in PSA slabs, take a look at the Tip Top Bread thread.

Where is that thread?

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by DWS44

The estimates keep getting higher and higher since I sent it back and got squat. Before long I'll have screwed myself out of a new house and car. hehe

Yes Dave, you messed up (with all due respect). You let PSA off easy. At worst, you could have sold it to someone like me who would have posted it here regularly to remind the world of how psa ensures we never get cheated. But instead, you let them off the hook for $34. It was your (reprint) card, so of course you are/were free to do with it as you choose. I just do not agree with your choice.

Ryan

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Yes Dave, you fucked up (with all due respect). You let PSA off easy. At worst, you could have sold it to someone like me who would have posted it here regularly to remind the world of how psa ensures we never get cheated. But instead, you let them off the hook for $34. It was your (reprint) card, so of course you are/were free to do with it as you choose. I just do not agree with your choice.

Ryan

Dave made his intentions clear and everyone had ample time to make him an offer he couldn't refuse. No one did, so he went through with his stated plan. He was doing what he thought was right, regardless of possible financial gain or being complicit in the forwarding the anti-PSA agenda so pervasive in some pockets here.

IMO anyone who, for any reason, owns and refuses to crack out a single PSA card, shouldn't cast stones here.

[oldeboo]

Yeah, there has to be a lot of PSA authenticated counterfeit cards out there, would be neat to see them in one thread. I'd wager people would pay more than a PSA genuine card in some cases. Crazy world we live in.