Help with PSA/DNA LOA Bat terminology

[JoeDfan]

Also, since I am thinking about it, my guess on your mystery man is Tony Gwynn.

(You don't have to give up the name of course. I just thought it would be fun to play)

[whiteymet]

Guys:

Thanks for your replies.

Still more questions/comments/answers.

Just to be clear, is there a different LOA for Game Used bats or do all bats have the "Professional Model Bat" designation above the photo of the bat?

No, JoeDfan it is not Tony Gwynn, but rather another left handed hitting HOFer

Is there a standard difference in value between a bat like this and a G.U. bat? Say 25% less etc.?

HOF bat collectors would not want a bat like this in their collections?

Thanks again,

Fred

[Mark]

As I understand it, their photo spreads of gamers usually have the Pro Model Bat language at the top of the page. Consider:

http://https://www.psacard.com/ProBatFacts/#29hall-of-fame-players

As for the phrase "game used," it may not appear in the letter, but if the bat is graded, it gets a designation such as PSA/DNA GU 10 or PSA/DNA GU 6. The higher the number, the more confident they are that it is game used. This Jeter bat sounds like it was almost surely used by him in a game. They say that it has his characteristics and that he used it during the period when the bat was issued, but they don't use the phrase "game used bat" other than the GU 10.

http://https://www.iconicauctions.com/derek_jeter_signed___game_used_2001_03_ny_yankees_-lot81155.aspx

Lou Brock?

[whiteymet]

Nope, Not Lou Brock

So when the LOA says:

"it is our opinion the bat is authentic as described" which description are they talking about?

The first:

The model number, length and weight specifications have been confirmed by the Manufacturer's ordering records as being ordered by the PLAYER ( my CAPS ) during the referenced labeling period.

or the second:

A review of "the players name" factory ordering records document the __ model as being ordered by "the player" throughout his career. However a 33 inch model can not be found. (my underline) Records indicate he ordered bats as short as 32 1/2 inches in the length. The __ model does appear on the "teams" team record during the referenced labeling period. It is common knowledge that the team, as well as the player, ordered bats for game use. It is our opinion the __ model "players name" bat is one of the team ordered bats.

It is a bit misleading if as Mark says the first is "standard language". Seems they should not include that if they have another conflicting description later on the LOA.

[JoeDfan]

Lou Brock was my second guess!

Yes, I think the language is sometimes a bit misleading. I have some PSA certs that start out with the same language, but later on, it clearly states that the bat is a team index bat.

Another confounding factor is that you have to pay extra for a GU grade, which I don't. So I have bats that don't have the grade assigned, but still say "was game used by [Player].

I think basically PSA uses little templates, because I have seen a few where they forgot to remove the previous player's name in the narrative.

The key I think is that yours specifically says "it is our opinion the model players bat is one of the team ordered bats". That pretty much says it all.
It means the team ordered the bat, but they ordered the player model for other players, spring training, or even (I think) minor league clubs. It is conceivable that the named player used the bat, but without ironclad provenance or photo evidence, I do not think that claim can be made.
Believe it or not, I have a store model bat used by Johnny Pesky, so you really never know. I saw two bats in Cooperstown that Mantle used to hit milestone shots, and neither of them are even his model!

[sicollector1954]

There is a huge difference in price between a pro-stock/index bat as opposed to a "game used" bat.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by JoeDfan

I think basically PSA uses little templates, because I have seen a few where they forgot to remove the previous player's name in the narrative.

....and that’s why they get the big bucks!

SMH.

[Trublubrucru]

If the Player wanted to use that size he would've ordered a few at least, if it was his popular model. Player probably never handled it. Still considered Pro Model because of other player possible use. Agree team index bats are a fraction of the value

[JoeDfan]

Originally Posted by Mark

As I understand it, their photo spreads of gamers usually have the Pro Model Bat language at the top of the page. Consider:

http://https://www.psacard.com/ProBatFacts/#29hall-of-fame-players

As for the phrase "game used," it may not appear in the letter, but if the bat is graded, it gets a designation such as PSA/DNA GU 10 or PSA/DNA GU 6. The higher the number, the more confident they are that it is game used. This Jeter bat sounds like it was almost surely used by him in a game. They say that it has his characteristics and that he used it during the period when the bat was issued, but they don't use the phrase "game used bat" other than the GU 10.

http://https://www.iconicauctions.com/derek_jeter_signed___game_used_2001_03_ny_yankees_-lot81155.aspx

Lou Brock?

It does say "[In PSA's opinion, the bat] was game used by Jeter during the referenced labeling period"; way down in the concluding paragraph.
That is the key difference I look for in PSA certs (in my opinion).

[bgar3]

I am just guessing, but I think the bat in question is from the 1950’s, not a more modern one. With that in mind, would the opinions all be the same?

[bat_master]

I think it's difficult to render any sort of opinion on this without having all information available.

[whiteymet]

Gentlemen:

Thanks to all for the info and education on the bat grading.

Just another reason I am glad I do not collect graded cards etc.

If the LOA can talk out of both sides of it mouth at the same time who needs them?

[JoeDfan]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Guys:

Thanks for your replies.

Still more questions/comments/answers.

Just to be clear, is there a different LOA for Game Used bats or do all bats have the "Professional Model Bat" designation above the photo of the bat?

No, JoeDfan it is not Tony Gwynn, but rather another left handed hitting HOFer

Is there a standard difference in value between a bat like this and a G.U. bat? Say 25% less etc.?

HOF bat collectors would not want a bat like this in their collections?

Thanks again,

Fred

The ones I have say what yours says IF the bat is just a pro stock/team index bat. Sometimes they say "use by the named player cannot be determined" or something like that.

The ones that are game used say the "Professional Model Bat"; but very specifically say in the narrative something like "our opinion that the bat was game used by [Your Player] during the referenced labeling period".

There is a HUGE difference in price on a bat that says "was game used by" and "professional model". Index bats are typically a fraction of the price.

I actually LOVE team index bats, and if it is not a player I have already, would be very interested.

And, darn it. I thought I had it figured out.

Sean