Any One Collect Pins?

[MK]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

In another thread, perezfan (Mark) asked for opinions on the "legitimacy" of a Jim Brown pin he had recently purchased. The pin basically had never been seen before, except when it was sold previously in another auction. The consensus was the pin was questionable. I personally think the pin is probably vintage but was home made.

It got me to thinking about how we decide if a pin is or is not "real." One strike against Mark's pin was that no one had seen another. OK...but I have been searching 25 years for a PM-10 I have seen exactly once. It is a Billy Pierce SF PM-10. Almost never seen, but everyone agrees it's "real." Another pin I've seen once yet is unquestionably real is a Hoyt Wilhelm HOF pin. There is another SF Giant PM-10 my buddy swears he saw on a lady's hat, even though no other Giants collector ever knew of it's existence. I believe Al has a few PM-10's (e.g. Wes Westrum), where his are the only ones known to exist yet are unquestionably real.

So, scarcity does not necessarily = fake. Even with the super-plentiful PM-10's (e.g. many variations of Willie Mays) we, in most cases, do not know who actually made the pin. Between the early 1900's paper back labels and the 1970's maker's name on the curl, most "real" pinbacks have no manufacturer's name. For all we know, they were made in somebody's basement. And, what if a guy working in a pin factory decided to quickly make 10 pins of his favorite player, while he was cranking out Mays pins. Are his 10 real or fake?

For the past 45 years, you could buy badge making machines from this company:

https://www.badgeaminit.com/

I would assume there were other pin making machines, prior to that. And even if you couldn't make pins at home, I would imagine a person could have a limited number of custom pins made in the 40s. 50's and 60's. Things like "Happy Retirement Bob!." Attached are a couple of Mays pins I have seen once and are not part of a particular "series". I think the color one is in andypcl's collection. Are these real or fake? If I had a chance to buy either, I probably would. My point is, licensing was different back in those days and I would doubt all, if any, of our known, "real" pins were licensed. So, if a guy decides to make 50 pins to sell outside a stadium in 1965 are those "real" or "fake"? Maybe some guy sold some Jim Browns outside of Cleveland Municipal Stadium? How do we, in the hobby, classify those pins? I'm not expressing myself all that well...I've been up since my dog threw up an hour ago....but hopefully you guys understand what I'm saying and will maybe chime in.

I would say the Brown pin is not fake, but is a fantasy. I doubt it was made and sold when Brown was active, but later. There is a Stan Musial pin that is often for sale as vintage, but actually was distributed years after his retirement. BTW Rob, hope your dog is better.