Everyone's favorite auction house

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Just more gas on a fire that should never have been started in the first place.

Oh please David. Spare me the self-righteousness, really. It's an admittedly stupid song parody like a hundred others Frank and I have done.

[Exhibitman]

I will defer to the memorabilia collectors w/r/t the sign cleaning. That said, I cannot imagine not cleaning grime from an item I buy; some of the non-card stuff I've handled is so grungy that it is unpleasant to handle.

As for the E95 Cobb, it is apparent on looking at the scan that there is damage on the top border and red color. You'd have to be blind to miss it.

I went back and read the LOTG note because it reads to me like the people here read two completely different texts. Here is what is says in pertinent part:

"PLEASE NOTE: We received an email from an astute collector the night before the auction closed, asking about what appears to be an erasure of a small stain along the top border of the card. In reviewing the card, it does appear that at some point, there was a small stain (remnants of which are still visible in the scan) along the top border of the card, just left of the center. It appears that an attempt was made to remove the stain at some point, which has resulted in a minor discoloration of the red background along the very top border (also visible in the scan). This card was graded quite some time ago, and we are unsure of whether SGC factored the discoloration into their grade, or if they missed it. Regardless, it is visible. While our policy is to withdraw items that are discovered to be altered, in this case we believe the alteration is visible enough that it is debatable whether or not it was done deceptively. Despite this, we are sending an errata email to all bidders on the card, and giving them the opportunity to cancel their bids on the card if they so choose."

So, the card has a visible flaw that SGC may have considered: since it has no qualifiers, we don't know. The card was offered up with a big scan (click the enlarge button) that clearly shows the flaw. When it was brought to Al's attention the last day of the auction, he contacted all of the bidders and offered to let them retract their bids. The winner chose to buy the card anyway. I fail to see the harm. If it was my bid, I would prefer the option of maintaining the bid if I found the card acceptable. That would seem to be the best outcome for the consignor, the winner, and the AH.

Lemme ask the naysayers this: if I sell this card with this scan do I have to disclose that it has back damage? Is that where we are?

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I will defer to the memorabilia collectors w/r/t the sign cleaning. That said, I cannot imagine not cleaning grime from an item I buy; some of the non-card stuff I've handled is so grungy that it is unpleasant to handle.

As for the E95 Cobb, it is apparent on looking at the scan that there is damage on the top border and red color. You'd have to be blind to miss it.

I went back and read the LOTG note because it reads to me like the people here read two completely different texts. Here is what is says in pertinent part:

"PLEASE NOTE: We received an email from an astute collector the

Lemme ask the naysayers this: if I sell this card with this scan do I have to disclose that it has back damage? Is that where we are?

So the ultra violet light and technology claimed to be used on cards over $500 must have missed it. I get it

[Hankphenom]

What, have we turned into a bunch of snowflakes here all of a sudden? A few posters react with skepticism at the idea that someone could have bought a sign in the spring REA auction, wiped it down with a wet pad, put it into a summer auction and cleared a quick ten grand for a few minutes work, and we're a "lynch mob" for expressing that skepticism, even with a little humor, no less, and particularly in light of recent events? I seem to remember catching all kinds of shit for pointing out during the Mastro frenzy and before any charges were brought that no one had offered any solid evidence of fraudulent activity on their part and they had a right to the presumption of innocence until that occurred. Now we're supposed to be silent about our doubts because...well, because of what, exactly? Because Bob and Al are well-liked and well-regarded members? I liked Mark and Doug, so what? The umbrage expressed seems excessive, and frankly, a little suspicious to me. "The poster doth protest too much, methinks!" Bob should be laughing all the way to the bank, what would he care that a few of us are so stupid and ignorant about memorabilia that we couldn't take advantage of this situation like he did? I'd be walking around like the king of the walk--what a smart guy I am!--not refusing to discuss the matter any further. This is no inconsequential episode on a number of points, not the least of which is that the original consignor and REA seem to have left a LOT of money on the table here, a lesson for a number of people, including them, to take heed of if true. A frequent protestation seen in the thread is that everybody knows you can do this, certainly every metal sign collector, this is elementary stuff, Bob just did what everybody does, why would anybody question it? Well, I'd like to put that proposition to the original consignor and also to REA and see what their answer would be. Let's all get off our high horses here, if this isn't a time for heightened scrutiny and skepticism, I don't know what is.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

What, have we turned into a bunch of snowflakes here all of a sudden? A few posters react with skepticism at the idea that someone could have bought a sign in the spring REA auction, wiped it down with a wet pad, put it into a summer auction and cleared a quick ten grand for a few minutes work, and we're a "lynch mob" for expressing that skepticism, even with a little humor, no less, and particularly in light of recent events? I seem to remember catching all kinds of shit for pointing out during the Mastro frenzy and before any charges were brought that no one had offered any solid evidence of fraudulent activity on their part and they had a right to the presumption of innocence until that occurred. Now we're supposed to be silent about our doubts because...well, because of what, exactly? Because Bob and Al are well-liked and well-regarded members? I liked Mark and Doug, so what? The umbrage expressed seems excessive, and frankly, a little suspicious to me. "The poster doth protest too much, methinks!" Bob should be laughing all the way to the bank, what would he care that a few of us are so stupid and ignorant about memorabilia that we couldn't take advantage of this situation like he did? I'd be walking around like the king of the walk--what a smart guy I am!--not refusing to discuss the matter any further. This is no inconsequential episode on a number of points, not the least of which is that the original consignor and REA seem to have left a LOT of money on the table here, a lesson for a number of people, including them, to take heed of if true. A frequent protestation seen in the thread is that everybody knows you can do this, certainly every metal sign collector, this is elementary stuff, Bob just did what everybody does, why would anybody question it? Well, I'd like to put that proposition to the original consignor and also to REA and see what their answer would be. Let's all get off our high horses here, if this isn't a time for heightened scrutiny and skepticism, I don't know what is.

Dang Hank, tell us how you really feel.... Yup, if there was/is a time to have a lot of skepticism about the hobby, that time would be now. I've all but stopped collecting a lot of things because of the state this hobby is in. Sadly, many of us love it too much to quit cold turkey, however I'm sure it's been crossing more people's minds lately.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Fred

Dang Hank, tell us how you really feel.... Yup, if there was/is a time to have a lot of skepticism about the hobby, that time would be now. I've all but stopped collecting a lot of things because of the state this hobby is in. Sadly, many of us love it too much to quit cold turkey, however I'm sure it's been crossing more people's minds lately.

I love the stuff and what it means to me as much as ever, and I love the hobby of collecting it. I'm also much too old to hold anything back, not that I ever did that even in my younger days. When card grading took over big time 20 years ago and I saw the effect it had on that part of the hobby, I thought it was ridiculous and decided even more to stick to memorabilia. Slabbing is ugly, and the anal compulsion of grade chasing akin to the tulip frenzy in Holland, in my opinion. Why would you ever need a card that would grade higher than a four when you can't see the difference with your naked eyes? To each his own, I don't care what others choose to do as long as you leave me alone to do my thing, but when it comes to this stuff, as Yogi would say: "Count me out!"

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Oh please David. Spare me the self-righteousness, really. It's an admittedly stupid song parody like a hundred others Frank and I have done.

Even though I'm 100% with "Team LOTG" on this, I chuckled at Peter's song, and did not sense any malice. It was clever, and just all in fun, IMO. My parents must've played the Fiddler on the Roof Soundtrack 1,000 times when we were growing up, to the point we knew every word of every song.

But (with regards to the Reach Sign) I do agree that this whole thing is a silly and unnecessary distraction from the serious fraud that's plaquing our hobby. Let's focus our efforts on the true restoration/alteration that is not being disclosed, and is bilking people to no end.

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Oh please David. Spare me the self-righteousness, really. It's an admittedly stupid song parody like a hundred others Frank and I have done.

Spare me the patronizing. Wasn't referring to your parody. It's a fine parody. This thread was started by an ankle-biting hobby nobody with a bitch on for LOTG. Al made a judgement call on an ambiguous matter and everybody wants to roast his ass. Maybe you think this thread is all in good fun but I think it is disrespectful to an honest hard-working guy.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Spare me the patronizing. Wasn't referring to your parody. It's a fine parody. This thread was started by an ankle-biting hobby nobody with a bitch on for LOTG. Al made a judgement call on an ambiguous matter and everybody wants to roast his ass. Maybe you think this thread is all in good fun but I think it is disrespectful to an honest hard-working guy.

WOW cool, so are you one of those very important MoFo's? I ask because I am a hobby nobody myself and would love to hear how important you are to the hobby.

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by bnorth

WOW cool, so are you one of those very important MoFo's? I ask because I am a hobby nobody myself and would love to hear how important you are to the hobby.

Not important, not a MoFo. Also a hobby nobody from way back but not an ankle-biter.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If you weren't referring to my parody why did you quote my post about it in your "gas on the fire" comment? Look at post 142 it seemed to me it was exactly what you were referencing. Anyhow no disrespect at all intended on my end, just a respectful disagreement with how Al responded to a particular issue. For at least the third time, I feel he should have stuck to his self-announced strict policy of not selling altered cards and not tried to finesse it. People can disagree without it being disrespectful.

Quit lawyering me if you would be so kind. The lyrics you wrote were a decent attempt at humor but it did nothing to alleviate a noxious thread. This thread is no joke. It undermines Al's livelihood. Nitpicky allegations against his ethics (not saying you have made any such comments) don't make him a better auctioneer, they just give him a headache.

OP - I apologize for the name-calling but you really need to cut Al some slack.

Anyway, I am done in this thread. Got some old-age real life shit going on and am not up to dueling with folks. Just standing up for a friend. Kawika over and out.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Spare me the patronizing. Wasn't referring to your parody. It's a fine parody. This thread was started by an ankle-biting hobby nobody with a bitch on for LOTG. Al made a judgement call on an ambiguous matter and everybody wants to roast his ass. Maybe you think this thread is all in good fun but I think it is disrespectful to an honest hard-working guy.

If you weren't referring to my parody why did you quote my post about it in your "gas on the fire" comment? Look at post 142 it seemed to me it was exactly what you were referencing. Anyhow no disrespect at all intended on my end, just a respectful disagreement with how Al responded to a particular issue. For at least the third time, I feel he should have stuck to his self-announced strict policy of not selling altered cards and not tried to finesse it. People can disagree without it being disrespectful.

[Jim VB]

Leon,

I haven’t posted on the main board here in over 9 years. Threads like this, and members like the OP are the reason why.

A guy who has continued to support and do business with a proven hobby fraud (PWCC), has decided to repeatedly attack an auctioneer that almost everyone here knows to be honest.

He admits that he doesn’t know the guy he is attacking. He admits he has never done business with him. Yet, on several occasions, he has started threads, or added to threads, in an attempt to show this auctioneer to be dishonest.

If anyone here were to attack the OP’s livelihood, or launch an on-line campaign to impugn the dealership he works for, that would be wrong. But we allow him to do exactly that in regards to LOTG.

Leon, in the past, you used to measure certain members here based on their “shit to equity ratio.” Admittedly, since I haven’t posted in 9+ years, I’ve offered neither shit, nor equity, so take my thoughts for what you will. But at some point, you have to decide which way you want a board to swing. If you ever ask yourself where all the solid, long time hobby guys have gone, and why they don’t post here anymore, think back to guys like the OP, who are here to do nothing constructive but revel in stirring up shit.

See you all in 9-10 more years!


Jim Van Brunt

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Leon,

I haven’t posted on the main board here in over 9 years. Threads like this, and members like the OP are the reason why.

A guy who has continued to support and do business with a proven hobby fraud (PWCC), has decided to repeatedly attack an auctioneer that almost everyone here knows to be honest.

He admits that he doesn’t know the guy he is attacking. He admits he has never done business with him. Yet, on several occasions, he has started threads, or added to threads, in an attempt to show this auctioneer to be dishonest.

If anyone here were to attack the OP’s livelihood, or launch an on-line campaign to impugn the dealership he works for, that would be wrong. But we allow him to do exactly that in regards to LOTG.

Leon, in the past, you used to measure certain members here based on their “shit to equity ratio.” Admittedly, since I haven’t posted in 9+ years, I’ve offered neither shit, nor equity, so take my thoughts for what you will. But at some point, you have to decide which way you want a board to swing. If you ever ask yourself where all the solid, long time hobby guys have gone, and why they don’t post here anymore, think back to guys like the OP, who are here to do nothing constructive but revel in stirring up shit.

See you all in 9-10 more years!

I agree

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Leon,

I haven’t posted on the main board here in over 9 years. Threads like this, and members like the OP are the reason why.

A guy who has continued to support and do business with a proven hobby fraud (PWCC), has decided to repeatedly attack an auctioneer that almost everyone here knows to be honest.

He admits that he doesn’t know the guy he is attacking. He admits he has never done business with him. Yet, on several occasions, he has started threads, or added to threads, in an attempt to show this auctioneer to be dishonest.

If anyone here were to attack the OP’s livelihood, or launch an on-line campaign to impugn the dealership he works for, that would be wrong. But we allow him to do exactly that in regards to LOTG.

Leon, in the past, you used to measure certain members here based on their “shit to equity ratio.” Admittedly, since I haven’t posted in 9+ years, I’ve offered neither shit, nor equity, so take my thoughts for what you will. But at some point, you have to decide which way you want a board to swing. If you ever ask yourself where all the solid, long time hobby guys have gone, and why they don’t post here anymore, think back to guys like the OP, who are here to do nothing constructive but revel in stirring up shit.

See you all in 9-10 more years!

Mic drop! Boom!

[pokerplyr80]

I'm almost positive this is the first LOTG thread I've ever started. The others I've commented in were mostly about various mistakes I wouldn't expect from a major AH if I remember correctly. And even in this one I don't believe I called him dishonest. Although I do believe an honest auctioneer should at least follow through on things they pledge to do on their own website. Even if it's only for the first auction or two after the statement is made.

[Leon]

Have you been in contact with anyone concerning these items in question, who has been banned from our forum, prior to posting the thread?

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I'm almost positive this is the first LOTG thread I've ever started. The others I've commented in were mostly about various mistakes I wouldn't expect from a major AH if I remember correctly. And even in this one I don't believe I called him dishonest. Although I do believe an honest auctioneer should at least follow through on things they pledge to do on their own website. Even if it's only for the first auction or two after the statement is made.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

Mic drop! Boom!

Yeah, much better we don’t have a free exchange of ideas of opinions. That will
make it a far better website. Lets just have one party line like the old Soviet Union or 1960s Cuba.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yeah, much better we don’t have a free exchange of ideas of opinions. That will
make it a far better website. Lets just have one party line like the old Soviet Union or 1960s Cuba.

Or CU.

Poppage!!
Nice rip!!

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yeah, much better we don’t have a free exchange of ideas of opinions. That will
make it a far better website. Lets just have one party line like the old Soviet Union or 1960s Cuba.

Wow. That’s EXACTLY what I meant. Oh wait...

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yeah, much better we don’t have a free exchange of ideas of opinions. That will make it a far better website. Lets just have one party line like the old Soviet Union or 1960s Cuba.

+1. Post of the Year candidate!

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yeah, much better we don’t have a free exchange of ideas of opinions. That will
make it a far better website. Lets just have one party line like the old Soviet Union or 1960s Cuba.

I don't think anyone has a problem with the free exchange of opinions. Why does it have to descend into personal attacks and name calling? We are all adults here, why can't we all act like adults?

[CobbSpikedMe]

While I understand the point that Al's own policy is to pull any altered card from the auction and he didn't, I still don't understand the controversy here. What he did do was make sure everyone involved had a choice to either get out or stay in the game and all but one chose to stay in the game. Nobody was hurt here. Why even start this thread? To point out that LOTG didn't pull the card in question? So what. They disclosed it to everyone and didn't try to hide it in any way. What's the point in trying to hurt his reputation? I just don't get it. The reason so many people are coming to Al's defense is because he is honorable and has earned that reputation over the years. Honesty, this situation is not some big issue that needs to be debated.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Leon,

I haven’t posted on the main board here in over 9 years. Threads like this, and members like the OP are the reason why.

A guy who has continued to support and do business with a proven hobby fraud (PWCC), has decided to repeatedly attack an auctioneer that almost everyone here knows to be honest.

He admits that he doesn’t know the guy he is attacking. He admits he has never done business with him. Yet, on several occasions, he has started threads, or added to threads, in an attempt to show this auctioneer to be dishonest.

If anyone here were to attack the OP’s livelihood, or launch an on-line campaign to impugn the dealership he works for, that would be wrong. But we allow him to do exactly that in regards to LOTG.

Leon, in the past, you used to measure certain members here based on their “shit to equity ratio.” Admittedly, since I haven’t posted in 9+ years, I’ve offered neither shit, nor equity, so take my thoughts for what you will. But at some point, you have to decide which way you want a board to swing. If you ever ask yourself where all the solid, long time hobby guys have gone, and why they don’t post here anymore, think back to guys like the OP, who are here to do nothing constructive but revel in stirring up shit.

See you all in 9-10 more years!


Jim Van Brunt

[Leon]

Make it 9 1/2 yrs and we call it even? See ya....

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Leon,

I haven’t posted on the main board here in over 9 years. Threads like this, and members like the OP are the reason why.

A guy who has continued to support and do business with a proven hobby fraud (PWCC), has decided to repeatedly attack an auctioneer that almost everyone here knows to be honest.

He admits that he doesn’t know the guy he is attacking. He admits he has never done business with him. Yet, on several occasions, he has started threads, or added to threads, in an attempt to show this auctioneer to be dishonest.

If anyone here were to attack the OP’s livelihood, or launch an on-line campaign to impugn the dealership he works for, that would be wrong. But we allow him to do exactly that in regards to LOTG.

Leon, in the past, you used to measure certain members here based on their “shit to equity ratio.” Admittedly, since I haven’t posted in 9+ years, I’ve offered neither shit, nor equity, so take my thoughts for what you will. But at some point, you have to decide which way you want a board to swing. If you ever ask yourself where all the solid, long time hobby guys have gone, and why they don’t post here anymore, think back to guys like the OP, who are here to do nothing constructive but revel in stirring up shit.

See you all in 9-10 more years!


Jim Van Brunt

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by Leon

Make it 9 1/2 yrs and we call it even? See ya....

Yeah Jim is the problem...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Yeah Jim is the problem...

What am I supposed to do ban someone for saying something which is relevant to the hobby? Al did absolutely nothing wrong in most people's minds, mine included. As someone above said, it's really a silly debate and at the end of it, it solidifies how good of a job LOTG does by the overwhelmingly positive responses seen.

No one is going to get banned for speaking their mind and following the very few rules we have. Same rules as they have always been. I have learned at least one thing in running the forum, you can't please everyone.

And lastly, if you go into a store and don't like it. You leave and come back 10 yrs later, and tell the manager how to run it, what do you think he would say?

.
.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Leon

Make it 9 1/2 yrs and we call it even? See ya....

The "Post of the Year" candidates are piling up!

[iowadoc77]

This thread is quickly gathering steam for the "going off the rails on the crazy train" thread of the year