Hey, pennant guys

Duluth Eskimo · #1 08-17-2019, 12:19 PM

Ok, I was buying and selling sports memorabilia and these pennants when the original "find" happened and this was way before anybody was reproducing any of these. Also, if you look closely at Val's pennant you can see there is natural toning in the fibers of the pennant. These repro's are all made of synthetic material that does not age like the others.

The link I included previously Mark and I talk about the original find and show some of the originals. I know everyone is on edge because of all of the shenanigans going on in the hobby, but Val's pennant is completely original and was purchased from the original "find" of these pennants that occurred in the 80's.

Duluth Eskimo · #2 08-17-2019, 12:20 PM

In case anyone was wondering what the Holy Grail of pennants would be, here it is

Hankphenom · #3 08-17-2019, 04:42 PM

I don't know what that's supposed to mean, but anybody's eyes can see the differences between Val's pennant and the one auctioned by LOTG, which does look like an original contemporary to the time of the Grays, the 1940s at the latest. I have no idea when Val's was made, but it's definitely not like the LOTG example in several respects, including the material used. I'd be quite surprised if it was made by the same company. So that begs the question: who did make it and when?" I don't find the fact that it was "found" in the 1980s encouraging in that respect. Clearly, it's not like the M&N and other more recent repros, but that doesn't help with when it was made and by whom.

perezfan · #4 08-17-2019, 06:48 PM

I understand the skepticism, but Val�s pennant is legit.

If you saw the repro and the authentic one side by side in-person, it would be immediately evident.

Hankphenom · #5 08-17-2019, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

I understand the skepticism, but Val�s pennant is legit.

If you saw the repro and the authentic one side by side in-person, it would be immediately evident.

Why does Val's look so different from the LOTG example?

Duluth Eskimo · #6 08-17-2019, 11:19 PM

You made your case back in the 2013 thread that I posted on the previous page and we explained the same thing to you. I explained then and now that these were NEW OLD STOCK that were made in the 40�s and there was a find of these in the 80�s. I have purchased hundreds and hundreds of vintage pennants from different people that ended up not being sold and they sat in a basement with most retaining their NrMt condition except for the ones on the bottom of the box that got wet or stained. When vendors couldn�t sell the material they didn�t just throw it in the garbage, they saved it like every depression era family from that era. Same thing goes with the Muhammad Ali, the 1963 Dodgers WS, the 1965 Dodgers WS, the 1966 Dodgers WS, the Dodgers red / blue opening day, the 3/4 size 1962 NFL pennants, and many many others that were found in quantity over the years.

Mark backs this story up because it is true. If you want to beat a dead horse, go ahead and do it.

Hankphenom · #7 08-18-2019, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

You made your case back in the 2013 thread that I posted on the previous page and we explained the same thing to you. I explained then and now that these were NEW OLD STOCK that were made in the 40�s and there was a find of these in the 80�s. I have purchased hundreds and hundreds of vintage pennants from different people that ended up not being sold and they sat in a basement with most retaining their NrMt condition except for the ones on the bottom of the box that got wet or stained. When vendors couldn�t sell the material they didn�t just throw it in the garbage, they saved it like every depression era family from that era. Same thing goes with the Muhammad Ali, the 1963 Dodgers WS, the 1965 Dodgers WS, the 1966 Dodgers WS, the Dodgers red / blue opening day, the 3/4 size 1962 NFL pennants, and many many others that were found in quantity over the years.

Mark backs this story up because it is true. If you want to beat a dead horse, go ahead and do it.

You're the one that keeps saying the same thing over and over again, I'm still searching for an explanation for the fact that Val's pennant looks completely different from the LOTG example. Not only is it patently different, but also inferior in just about every significant aspect: quality of material, quality of workmanship, quality of appearance. The paint is of a thin "see-through" type as opposed to the thick and opaque variety on the LOTG pennant; the cloth is of the stiffer, cheaper composition in contrast to the soft felt of the other one; The color and shape of the tassels doesn't even match that of the pennant, for Christ's sake. If you want to keep claiming one is like the other, you're beating a dead horse I'm never going to buy because my eyes can see that's clearly not true. Having said that, I am open to the idea that Val's pennant was indeed contemporaneous to the team, and I hope that's true, but I'd like to see one example of Val's type, even of another team, that was known to be in existence before the "find" of the 1980s. And even without that evidence, I would hold open the possibility that the "find" truly was manufactured in the 1940s but never put on sale then, but I would also consider it just as or more likely that they weren't made until much later at the same time as the "find."

Duluth Eskimo · #8 08-17-2019, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I don't know what that's supposed to mean, but anybody's eyes can see the differences between Val's pennant and the one auctioned by LOTG, which does look like an original contemporary to the time of the Grays, the 1940s at the latest. I have no idea when Val's was made, but it's definitely not like the LOTG example in several respects, including the material used. I'd be quite surprised if it was made by the same company. So that begs the question: who did make it and when?" I don't find the fact that it was "found" in the 1980s encouraging in that respect. Clearly, it's not like the M&N and other more recent repros, but that doesn't help with when it was made and by whom.

Then don�t buy it.

Hankphenom · #9 08-17-2019, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Then don�t buy it.

Don't worry, I never would.

pologrounds · #10 08-18-2019, 10:54 AM

Buying LJSU pennants.
Mike Mays, Mayseum, mikeymays@sbcglobal.net

Domer05 · #11 08-20-2019, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pologrounds

Buying LJSU pennants.
Mike Mays, Mayseum, mikeymays@sbcglobal.net

Is that a four-letter monogram pennant from the Leland Stanford, Jr. University? You gotta love that style. Probably from the 1910s or earlier, right? Back then, there seemed to be no limit to the amount of letters you could throw into a monogram.

If there's a maker's tag on the reverse, feel free to share it.

Fballguy · #12 08-20-2019, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domer05

Is that a four-letter monogram pennant from the Leland Stanford, Jr. University? You gotta love that style. Probably from the 1910s or earlier, right? Back then, there seemed to be no limit to the amount of letters you could throw into a monogram.

If there's a maker's tag on the reverse, feel free to share it.

The monogram looks like the subway map in Tokyo.

pologrounds · #13 08-21-2019, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domer05

Is that a four-letter monogram pennant from the Leland Stanford, Jr. University? You gotta love that style. Probably from the 1910s or earlier, right? Back then, there seemed to be no limit to the amount of letters you could throw into a monogram.

If there's a maker's tag on the reverse, feel free to share it.

The pennant is from my private Mayseum collection. I have additional LJSU pennants and they are circa 1910. No maker labels.

Bignoff · #14 08-21-2019, 06:00 PM

I had it framed in St. Louis by Dogtown Sports Framing. They came up with the Idea of Browns logos of the era, and they made a computer generated mat with what I presented to them. They wanted to make the logos as dark as the pennant, but I made them lighten them because I wanted the pennant to be the star of the show. It is affixed with acid free tape dots that can come off pretty easy, and we also used museum glass

Bignoff · #15 08-20-2019, 10:34 PM

http://www.net54baseball.com/attachm...1&d=1566358406

Duluth Eskimo · #16 08-21-2019, 07:55 AM

Nice Browns pennant

Hankphenom · #17 08-21-2019, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Nice Browns pennant

+1. A real beauty, great pennant and great presentation. And check out the fingernails!

perezfan · #18 08-21-2019, 01:24 PM

Fantastic pennant! Oversized.... right? If so, it might be the first Oversized Browns Pennant I've ever seen.

There was one touted as such on eBay recently, but it was of the generic variety and may have been just a "City Pennant".

This one leaves no doubts... congrats!

Bignoff · #19 08-21-2019, 08:06 PM

Thanks! yes it's over sized. The Framer said a guy came in , and commented that he had one just like it. So it is possible there is another one out there.

MK · #20 08-21-2019, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bignoff

http://www.net54baseball.com/attachm...1&d=1566358406

This may be the best framed pennant I�ve seen. The color of the frame itself and the backing board are lighter than the pennant so it really jumps out at you. Where did you find the backing board with the St Louis logos?

perezfan · #21 08-21-2019, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MK

This may be the best framed pennant I�ve seen. The color of the frame itself and the backing board are lighter than the pennant so it really jumps out at you. Where did you find the backing board with the St Louis logos?

I was wondering the same and also am curious... How is the pennant affixed to the matting?

Duluth Eskimo · #22 08-23-2019, 09:17 PM

Meant to quote this

The Framer said a guy came in , and commented that he had one just like it. So it is possible there is another one out there.

Sure he does. Sounds like a hundred people that stopped at my table / booth at multiple shows / nationals.

baseball tourist · #23 08-23-2019, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MK

This may be the best framed pennant I�ve seen. The color of the frame itself and the backing board are lighter than the pennant so it really jumps out at you. Where did you find the backing board with the St Louis logos?

I would agree. Looks great! I have not been a fan of the rectangular frame approach for pennants as there is typically so much backing space as the pennant narrows. This changes my perception entirely. I also agree with the owner that the subdued logos was the way to go. Very nice!

Bumpus Jones · #24 08-23-2019, 06:23 PM

Let's see your pennant / banner combos

icollectDCsports · #25 08-23-2019, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumpus Jones

Let's see your pennant / banner combos

Wow!

baseball tourist · #26 08-25-2019, 06:08 PM

Picked this up locally and haven’t seen this pennant before or really anything from the team. 18 inches long (not including tassels). Felt.

The Victoria Athletics were a Western International League baseball team based in Victoria, British Columbia that existed from 1946 to 1951. From 1947 to 1949, they were affiliated with the New York Yankees. They played their home games at Royal Athletic Park. Gil McDougald played for them.

The Western International League was a mid- to higher-level minor league baseball circuit in the northwest United States and western Canada. Informally known as the "Willy" loop, it operated in 1922, 1937–1942, and 1946–1954. In 1955, the league changed its name to the Northwest League, and still operates today as a Class A-Short Season loop under that name.

perezfan · #27 08-26-2019, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumpus Jones

Let's see your pennant / banner combos

Here's a few, Chris...

1. 1961 Reds
2. 1961 Reds/Yanks
3. Adirondack Bats
4. 1954 Indians

Fballguy · #28 08-26-2019, 02:46 PM

Great stuff Mark!

Rob...You have this one? Just hit the bay. eBay that is.

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