PWCC is alive and well

[Johnny630]

[QUOTE=ullmandds;1907752]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Even after all the fraud and manipulation has been exposed I can no longer invest my time and money in a industry/system that makes no sense to me.
People do not get it .......it’s all about money and a slab with fake opinionated numbers on them oh and high end Stickers.

Shills, Investors, Doctors, Salesmen, Opinion Givers ugh yuck

and this is your prerogative...BUT...it seems most DO NOT CARE!!!!!!!!

You’re correct Pete they don’t care so the vast majority will remain happy selling, pushing, pumping, shilling, and manipulating all along while bragging about their PSA graded cards.

It’s garbage...total trash.

[ullmandds]

Someone on facebook was showing off his new acquisitions from one of the big AH's this past weekend...one card looked really bad to me...totally overgraded and likely altered higher grade Goudey Ruth. His response to me was:

" I’m more of the camp of the system is what it is. Collectors either believe in the system or they don’t. Nobody thinks their cards grade high enough and that’s everybody’s else’s are too high. If it is fake that’s concerning but I don’t get caught up in trying to degrade. Appreciate the insight."

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Someone on facebook was showing off his new acquisitions from one of the big AH's this past weekend...one card looked really bad to me...totally overgraded and likely altered higher grade Goudey Ruth. His response to me was:

" I’m more of the camp of the system is what it is. Collectors either believe in the system or they don’t. Nobody thinks their cards grade high enough and that’s everybody’s else’s are too high. If it is fake that’s concerning but I don’t get caught up in trying to degrade. Appreciate the insight."

That attitude is why I’m out of this Industry....I can’t stomach it....What about all the people that have done it right over the years? What a big up yours to them…… The new generation only wants to gamble they could care less about quality it’s only about the label of the Newport Beach Slab.
To many people are making money....Nothing is going to change except more agreed in the industry

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

That attitude is why I’m out of this Industry....I can’t stomach it....

Here is what I don't understand:

You and several other regular posters on this site claim to be totally "out of this industry [because] you can't stomach it". If this is the case, then why are you (and those several others) some of the most frequent and angry posters on a chat board about an industry you are out of and cant stomach? Seems your time and efforts may be better served being directed at something you are into. At the least, perhaps your stomach would enjoy the break. Just sayin......

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here is what I don't understand:

You and several other regular posters on this site claim to be totally "out of this industry [because] you can't stomach it". If this is the case, then why are you (and those several others) some of the most frequent and angry posters on a chat board about an industry you are out of and cant stomach? Seems your time and efforts may be better served being directed at something you are into. At the least, perhaps your stomach would enjoy the break. Just sayin......

It’s like a bunch of vegans barging into a stake house to claim moral authority.

[CMIZ5290]

As I have said since Moby Dick was a minnow, PWCC and Ebay are going nowhere, period.....Look at some of the 50's cards PWCC has ending tonight, unfreaking believable at some of the prices....Brent and Joe O continue to laugh their collective asses off....

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

As I have said since Moby Dick was a minnow, PWCC and Ebay are going nowhere, period.....Look at some of the 50's cards PWCC has ending tonight, unfreaking believable at some of the prices....Brent and Joe O continue to laugh their collective asses off....

minnow huh? funny you were PSA's biggest fanboy until very recently Kevin.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

As I have said since Moby Dick was a minnow, PWCC and Ebay are going nowhere, period.....Look at some of the 50's cards PWCC has ending tonight, unfreaking believable at some of the prices....Brent and Joe O continue to laugh their collective asses off....

Soooo, Joe has been selling off his stock and maybe this is Brent's way of selling off his stock to? Wonder what percentage of cards are from consignors compared to family/friends.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here is what I don't understand:

You and several other regular posters on this site claim to be totally "out of this industry [because] you can't stomach it". If this is the case, then why are you (and those several others) some of the most frequent and angry posters on a chat board about an industry you are out of and cant stomach? Seems your time and efforts may be better served being directed at something you are into. At the least, perhaps your stomach would enjoy the break. Just sayin......

Originally Posted by jhs5120

It’s like a bunch of vegans barging into a stake house to claim moral authority.

I don’t like the fraud, but the Hamlet act some of the posters here are putting on about leaving the hobby is getting old. I accept that this is a billion dollar a year unregulated industry, and so there are fakes everywhere, including probably in my collection. I sleep well at night knowing that I’ve done my due diligence to make that a number I can live with. If other members do not feel that way, fine, that’s their prerogative, but then when they keep making posts about being done with the hobby, with nothing new or constructive to add, I get irritated.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by egri

I don’t like the fraud, but the Hamlet act some of the posters here are putting on about leaving the hobby is getting old. I accept that this is a billion dollar a year unregulated industry, and so there are fakes everywhere, including probably in my collection. I sleep well at night knowing that I’ve done my due diligence to make that a number I can live with. If other members do not feel that way, fine, that’s their prerogative, but then when they keep making posts about being done with the hobby, with nothing new or constructive to add, I get irritated.

Everything I have said has been constructive, I think most would agree on this board. I don’t wanna piss off anyone. It is what it is at this point.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

It’s like a bunch of vampires barging into a stake house to claim moral authority.

Fixed that for you! I think.... I might have fixed the wrong word, but I'll stand by my fix...

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Here is what I don't understand:

You and several other regular posters on this site claim to be totally "out of this industry [because] you can't stomach it". If this is the case, then why are you (and those several others) some of the most frequent and angry posters on a chat board about an industry you are out of and cant stomach? Seems your time and efforts may be better served being directed at something you are into. At the least, perhaps your stomach would enjoy the break. Just sayin......

You’re correct my stomach does need a break...this will be my last post about this.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

You’re correct my stomach does need a break...this will be my last post about this.

Please don't stop posting about it. If everyone stops posting about it the scum bags win because it will go away.

[Bocabirdman]

Of course guys, one point that hasn't been made is that if you eliminate TPGs, the card doctors only streamline their deception. Buy a card, screw with it and resell it. I am not sure that it much better.

Also, in the pre-TPG world there was an on-going problem with individual grading opinions. One guy's VG/EX was another's VG ...... or EX. In addition, there were unscrupulous vendors pulling straight up bait and switches. It was tough to prove it where it was one raw card substituted for another. The TPG world is not perfect but I am not sure things would be better without them.

I wonder if there are any possible technical advances available that could actually put card doctors out of business. The U.S. Mint sure has a helluva hard time staying one step ahead of the forgers.........

[HRBAKER]

Before TPG all of the altered cards were raw, at least now you have a choice of how you like them, raw or slabbed.
Slabbing certainly appears to have made it a higher paying profession.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

Of course guys, one point that hasn't been made is that if you eliminate TPGs, the card doctors only streamline their deception. Buy a card, screw with it and resell it. I am not sure that it much better.

Also, in the pre-TPG world there was an on-going problem with individual grading opinions. One guy's VG/EX was another's VG ...... or EX. In addition, there were unscrupulous vendors pulling straight up bait and switches. It was tough to prove it where it was one raw card substituted for another. The TPG world is not perfect but I am not sure things would be better without them.

I wonder if there are any possible technical advances available that could actually put card doctors out of business. The U.S. Mint sure has a helluva hard time staying one step ahead of the forgers.........

I certainly agree with you 100. The problem with the PSA system is that has create a billion dollar fraud you otherwise would never of had with out them. Maybe just in the millions.

[Goudey77]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I certainly agree with you 100. The problem with the PSA system is that has create a billion dollar fraud you otherwise would never of had with out them. Maybe just in the millions.

It amazes me how persistent you guys are. Talking about the same things. Same lines over and over between the 5-10 guys.

[wondo]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

It amazes me how persistent you guys are. Talking about the same things. Same lines over and over between the 5-10 guys.

Welcome to the Net54 boards.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

It amazes me how persistent you guys are. Talking about the same things. Same lines over and over between the 5-10 guys.

Martin, I 100% agree with you. Those guys need to get the scandal to go away as fast as possible to protect their altered high end cards values.

The cards are in the industries most respected slabs. That should be all that matters, that and PWCC brings the best prices in their amazing completely honest auctions.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

It amazes me how persistent you guys are. Talking about the same things. Same lines over and over between the 5-10 guys.

this is the most spot-on accurate post in months. so much huffing and puffing here while the real work is being done elsewhere.

[Goodsport40]

Legal type question:

If the authorities are able to prove that Moser and Brent knowingly committed fraud by selling altered items as authentic(at higher grades due to trimming, etc.) would each item sold be considered one count of fraud each?

My apologies if this has been covered in another thread. Thanks.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Goodsport40

Legal type question:

If the authorities are able to prove that Moser and Brent knowingly committed fraud by selling altered items as authentic(at higher grades due to trimming, etc.) would each item sold be considered one count of fraud each?

My apologies if this has been covered in another thread. Thanks.

Not a legal answer, but if each incident was a separate count of fraud, you would need a team of mathematicians with advanced degrees to tally the total. Believe it or not I have a BS in Mathematics and would volunteer........

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
....................


I think I’ve got the hang of it. How am I doing?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Goudey77

It amazes me how persistent you guys are. Talking about the same things. Same lines over and over between the 5-10 guys.

It's because we stand for something. guys like you didn't even want to believe from the start how deep and how long this scam show has been running.

We are doing this believe it or not for idiots just like you martian that can't understand normal thinking. So there is a record of it, on the inter web.

Dufusas like yourself will still continue to pop and play the corporate PSA game all the while try to silence truth tellers. Did your cards pop, oh boy, they're popping, I'm so excited. pop goes the weasel. You were wrong from the beginning and you are wrong now, WAKE UP dummie. It's a scam.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

It's because we stand for something. guys like you didn't even want to believe from the start how deep and how long this scam show has been running.

We are doing this believe it or not for idiots just like you martian that can't understand normal thinking. So there is a record of it, on the inter web.

Dufusas like yourself will still continue to pop and play the corporate PSA game all the while try to silence truth tellers. Did your cards pop, oh boy, they're popping, I'm so excited. pop goes the weasel. You were wrong from the beginning and you are wrong now, WAKE UP dummie. It's a scam.

While I understand your frustration, THE WHOLE HOBBY ISN'T A SCAM!!!! If you think it is, maybe you should take up needlepoint? It's safer.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

It's because we stand for something. guys like you didn't even want to believe from the start how deep and how long this scam show has been running.

We are doing this believe it or not for idiots just like you martian that can't understand normal thinking. So there is a record of it, on the inter web.

Dufusas like yourself will still continue to pop and play the corporate PSA game all the while try to silence truth tellers. Did your cards pop, oh boy, they're popping, I'm so excited. pop goes the weasel. You were wrong from the beginning and you are wrong now, WAKE UP dummie. It's a scam.

Maybe Peter Nash wrote "Pop Goes the Weasel" about a PSA submission gone wrong?

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

It's because we stand for something. guys like you didn't even want to believe from the start how deep and how long this scam show has been running.

We are doing this believe it or not for idiots just like you martian that can't understand normal thinking. So there is a record of it, on the inter web.

Dufusas like yourself will still continue to pop and play the corporate PSA game all the while try to silence truth tellers. Did your cards pop, oh boy, they're popping, I'm so excited. pop goes the weasel. You were wrong from the beginning and you are wrong now, WAKE UP dummie. It's a scam.

What is truly amazing is that every time PWCC is the topic Goudey77 (Martin) crawls out from some rock somewhere and defends PWCC. He is on the payroll and it is obvious.