PSA Confidence Buying?

[invest]

Hi Matt,

I am at a similar inflection point as you. I only buy graded cards since I too like to know the card is authentic. I am not skilled enough to hold a raw card and know for sure its real. So with everything that has been brought to light here is what I am doing.

I am being very selective now and only looking to complete my Top 20 cards list (I only need 2 more cards) I was going to do a 1957 FB set and others, but I have soured recently on that idea with everything going on. My set building days are probably behind me.

After reading everything, I don't believe it makes any difference in older labels or newer labels, fraud is everywhere. If and when I find my two cards(graded) I will post pictures on all the forums I belong to and if someone finds evidence (that I missed in my due diligence) they have been altered I will return them and try again. No other choice from my perspective. I love collecting cards and although the scandal has dampened that, it won't stop me from collecting and enjoying looking at my cards and others cards.

Troy

[vintagetoppsguy]

Sorry, but buying from trusted sellers is not the answer. Cards are bought, sold and traded every day. You don't think some of these altered cards unknowingly ended up in the hands of trusted sellers? Sure they did...and will probably continue to do so. Trust has nothing to do with it.

Here's the best advice and you can take it or leave it. Educate yourself! Learn what to look for - trimming, re-coloring, added paper, etc. Don't rely on some TPG or "trusted seller" to do it for you. If you can learn that, you're way ahead of the graders and most trusted sellers.

[mferronibc]

Yea I had the same thought about cards turning over so often and ending up in the hands of good people who resell.

But does that mean you never buy online? How can you really evaluate for yourself trimming, coloring, etc from an eBay pic or 2? And how do you even know the actual pic isn’t altered to make the card look better? I swear I’ve bought a few that when I receive them look quite worse off than the pics I scoured on EBay. I unfortunately live in a small Midwest town so don’t really have access to any card stores or shows to see in person and eval for myself even if I trained myself better what to look for.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by mferronibc

But does that mean you never buy online? How can you really evaluate for yourself trimming, coloring, etc from an eBay pic or 2?

But that doesn't matter. So you buy an altered card online? As long as you can identify it once you have the card in hand, then you simply return it. It costs you a little of your time and it's an inconvenience, but it doesn't cost you any money.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Sorry, but buying from trusted sellers is not the answer. Cards are bought, sold and traded every day. You don't think some of these altered cards unknowingly ended up in the hands of trusted sellers? Sure they did...and will probably continue to do so. Trust has nothing to do with it.

Here's the best advice and you can take it or leave it. Educate yourself! Learn what to look for - trimming, re-coloring, added paper, etc. Don't rely on some TPG or "trusted seller" to do it for you. If you can learn that, you're way ahead of the graders and most trusted sellers.

I understand your point and don't actually disagree with you but I would like to point out that often a trusted seller will have identified problems and weeded them out before putting an item up for sale. I know personally I reject tons of recolored 1971's for instance, along with trimmed cards. Have I missed some? Most likely, but that's where personal knowledge can come in. But when he's asking about buying cards he can't hold in hand before purchasing trust is the most important first step he can take. At least if a mistake is made that personal knowledge catches, a trusted seller will likely make good without the necessity of law enforcement getting involved!

[Exhibitman]

Didn't buy a single PSA graded card at the NSCC and loved it. Evaluating my own cards is such a pleasure. I actually replaced quite a few slabbed cards with raw and will be selling those.

[mferronibc]

Very valid point about returning an Ebay card if not happy. Are there any good archived threads or other sites with examples people have posted identifying doctored cards so I can start to get a sense of what to look for evaluating my own?

[mq711]

The advantage of buying cards in older holders is some of the doctoring/ restoration will start to show over time. “Spooned” wrinkles, pressed corners, etc. will start to reveal their original damage. I realize the TPGers have altered their standards but I think one of the main reasons we see so many overgraded cards in old holders is the cards are returning to their true condition.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mq711

The advantage of buying cards in older holders is some of the doctoring/ restoration will start to show over time. “Spooned” wrinkles, pressed corners, etc. will start to reveal their original damage. I realize the TPGers have altered their standards but I think one of the main reasons we see so many overgraded cards in old holders is the cards are returning to their true condition.

I think they had more realistic standards back then. More in line with old school grading. Not grading based on the prevalence of amped up doctored cards where a microspeck on a corner gets you a 7.

[Johnny630]

I have No Confidence in Any PSA Graded Card Unless I submitted the card myself or know the complete history of the card and its owner. Will never buy a PSA Graded card from any auction houses or eBay without having he card in my had.

I’ve bought all my high end amazing stuff from one gentlemen whom is a collector or has purchased and graded himself from virgin raw deals.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I have No Confidence in Any PSA Graded Card Unless I submitted the card myself or know the complete history of the card and its owner. Will never buy a PSA Graded card from any auction houses or eBay without having he card in my had.

I’ve bought all my high end amazing stuff from one gentlemen whom is a collector or has purchased and graded himself from virgin raw deals.

Yeah John when I first got back into collecting in the early to mid 90s I was plugged in to a guy who had access to those type of deals, there were lots of them back in the day, just about all the cards were good, they just had a certain look to them and I'm sure you know what I mean.

[Nick55]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think they had more realistic standards back then. More in line with old school grading. Not grading based on the prevalence of amped up doctored cards where a microspeck on a corner gets you a 7.

The "microspecking" of self-submitted cards is the primary reason I sold off two complete registry sets this past Spring and retired two others that were about 25 percent complete. I honestly thought those would be with me for life.

I stopped buying graded cards altogether in May, when all of this started coming to the surface. Since then, I've spent close to $1K, all on ungraded cards and most being under $25 apiece. I don't need a professional grader to help me navigate those safer waters.

Am I having more "fun" now? No, but it's about the same "fun" as before, except that the difference is nearly all of the frustration and anxiety associated with expensive graded cards has gone away. If a VG raw card worth $3 turns out to be trimmed, so what. I can just buy another one at that price.

Bottom line: collectors either quit or adapt. I've chosen to adapt. I can't imagine myself buying a graded card again until there is a meaningful change in management starting at the top. An apology would help as well. I will allow my membership to expire in the meantime.

[steve B]

What I'd recommend for someone who wants a collection of "cool" cards to share with a kid is to focus less on the condition and more on what makes the card cool.

Usually I say to start with a stack of ungraded commons so you can get an idea of what they should be like, but for some sets that's just not really doable anymore.

Internet purchases can be tougher, even the difference in scanner settings can make something look better or worse. I'm pretty confident in spotting stuff, so if the price was right I'd even buy from a bad cellphone picture. (Like one of my George C Millers... it's pretty beat like the others, but was listed as "old baseball card" with a slightly blurry small picture. ) But to me what makes it cool is that it's one of my favorite sets, and not an easy one to find cards from.

One of my friends asked why I collected cards, and I showed him one card from each decade from 1880's up to the 1990's and explained how the card as a promotional item reflected the country at the time. That might not work for a kid, but showing a card of an old time ball player and telling about him and what he did probably would. My daughters are 7 and 9 now, and I've done that a few times. Not a lot of interest yet, although the older one seems to like stamps, which I also collect. And of course pokemon and magic cards.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Nick55

The "microspecking" of self-submitted cards is the primary reason I sold off two complete registry sets this past Spring and retired two others that were about 25 percent complete. I honestly thought those would be with me for life.

I stopped buying graded cards altogether in May, when all of this started coming to the surface. Since then, I've spent close to $1K, all on ungraded cards and most being under $25 apiece. I don't need a professional grader to help me navigate those safer waters.

Am I having more "fun" now? No, but it's about the same "fun" as before, except that the difference is nearly all of the frustration and anxiety associated with expensive graded cards has gone away. If a VG raw card worth $3 turns out to be trimmed, so what. I can just buy another one at that price.

Bottom line: collectors either quit or adapt. I've chosen to adapt. I can't imagine myself buying a graded card again until there is a meaningful change in management starting at the top. An apology would help as well. I will allow my membership to expire in the meantime.

good strategy. I can't SEE feeding such a fraudulent hobby any longer, my eyes are hurtin