Anyone else feel the same way?

[Jim65]

No it hasn't. Being almost exclusively a Mets collector, I already own most every Mets card, outside of some of the true rarities. The scandal hasn't affected me at all.

[oldjudge]

No

[CobbSpikedMe]

Not at all. I love cards. I'll always collect them and this will hopefully bring some of the prices down again so I can afford some better names again. I'm not in it for the money, just the cards. And mine are beaters, whether raw or graded. So my response to your question is no. I still love cards.

[timn1]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

Not at all. I love cards. I'll always collect them and this will hopefully bring some of the prices down again so I can afford some better names again. I'm not in it for the money, just the cards. And mine are beaters, whether raw or graded. So my response to your question is no. I still love cards.

Describes me perfectly.

[AGuinness]

I'm curious if anyone who does feel the same way, that recent revelations have ruined things, could go deeper as to what has changed. I ask, in part, because while the revelations are dramatic, trimming, recoloring, etc. are not at all new; these types of scammers and bad actors have had a presence in the hobby for a long, long time.
The revelations are shocking and I am still frustrated that we have to deal with card doctors and this type of bad behavior. But perhaps what is even more frustrating is how PWCC has not seemed to lose much business despite the revelations. It's like a restaurant that people discover is serving rat meat instead of hamburgers, all while adding RoundUp and spitting on them before giving them to people. And yet customers still line up...
Anyway, I'm not going to let a few bad actors ruin my fun in the hobby. But my collecting goals are modest (to say the least) and my philosophy with buying any card is that I will make the purchase if I am ok with it losing all it's value and I can still enjoy it.

[AGuinness]

Not sure if a similar joke was made elsewhere, but I think a new sticker for slabbed cards is more than appropriate, indicating a card's provenance does not include a sale through a suspicious auction house/seller. It would be "Not Of PWCC Or Other Pernicious-Purveyors," or the acronym: No Poop. Who wouldn't want a slabbed card bearing the 'No Poop' sticker?!

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

I'm curious if anyone who does feel the same way, that recent revelations have ruined things, could go deeper as to what has changed .

There will always be people who alter cards. That's not going away. I trusted PSA to catch it and they failed. PWCC bought cards that were later altered. They worked with Gary Moser. Brent shilled auctions. Bobby Binder of VCP knows the data he sells (Brent's sales prices) is a fraud. He uses alts on various forums to defend himself. I can go on and on. It's a mess and hard to believe they're not all working together somehow. I guess my confidence is shot. I'd rather collect raw and spend the extra money elsewhere.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

There will always be people who alter cards. That's not going away. I trusted PSA to catch it and they failed. PWCC bought cards that were later altered. They worked with Gary Moser. Brent shilled auctions. Bobby Binder of VCP knows the data he sells (Brent's sales prices) is a fraud. He uses alts on various forums to defend himself. I can go on and on. It's a mess and hard to believe they're not all working together somehow. I guess my confidence is shot. I'd rather collect raw and spend the extra money elsewhere.

One of the "detectives" at BO complained that the new VCP site makes it more difficult to use images there and evidently Bobby did not respond. Bobby also has not responded to questions about why, if as he says advertising revenue is insignificant to him in general and PWCC revenue even less so, why he continues to promote PWCC in light of all that's come to light. Perhaps these are oversights and Bobby will address them.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

There will always be people who alter cards. That's not going away. I trusted PSA to catch it and they failed. PWCC bought cards that were later altered. They worked with Gary Moser. Brent shilled auctions. Bobby Binder of VCP knows the data he sells (Brent's sales prices) is a fraud. He uses alts on various forums to defend himself. I can go on and on. It's a mess and hard to believe they're not all working together somehow. I guess my confidence is shot. I'd rather collect raw and spend the extra money elsewhere.

Totally agree that many players in the hobby seem to be "working" together.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

I'm curious if anyone who does feel the same way, that recent revelations have ruined things, could go deeper as to what has changed. I ask, in part, because while the revelations are dramatic, trimming, recoloring, etc. are not at all new; these types of scammers and bad actors have had a presence in the hobby for a long, long time.
The revelations are shocking and I am still frustrated that we have to deal with card doctors and this type of bad behavior. But perhaps what is even more frustrating is how PWCC has not seemed to lose much business despite the revelations. It's like a restaurant that people discover is serving rat meat instead of hamburgers, all while adding RoundUp and spitting on them before giving them to people. And yet customers still line up...
Anyway, I'm not going to let a few bad actors ruin my fun in the hobby. But my collecting goals are modest (to say the least) and my philosophy with buying any card is that I will make the purchase if I am ok with it losing all it's value and I can still enjoy it.

What's new for me is the PWCC business plan from the start. To shill bid, bleach and trim every card for the taking, re holster a sell for a huge profit.

I'm just not interested in a hobby that allows that bullshit for 15 years, sorry.

[hcv123]

I have had a "problem" with PSA for a long time in that I have seen how inconsistent their grading was - so I rarely if ever chased a card because of the holder it was in. That said, the recently uncovered information brings it to a whole new level! So, yeah, I am a bit disheartened and have backed off a bit - tossed the last couple of auction catalogs I got without opening them. I have purchased a couple of cards from PWCC in the past and consigned with them - sadly including a submission right before the story broke. Will not be doing business there again. Will still be collecting as I was before PSA and PWCC existed, just being much more cautious with any larger purchases in light of the scandal.

[yanksfan09]

Nope,

While I haven't bought much recently I plan to, hoping to see some nice Fall auctions. Wouldn't mind some lower prices too when I'm buying!

I'm still recovering from my Ty Cobb RC purchases

[iowadoc77]

Still buying. Just narrowing the focus.

[vintagecpa]

I’m most likely done with vintage. I’ll probably keep what I have. I actually found myself buying some modern cards for the first time in many years. There are a few more options besides Topps, Fleer, and Donruss now.

[Brian Van Horn]

I keep collecting, but eBay has gone down in selection and the prices....... As for auctions outside of eBay, I am seeing some auctions which have very few pre-WWII cards compared to the past. Obviously Heritage is one of the exceptions. After nearly 47 years of collecting with the last 30 being almost completely pre-war it is hard to put on the brakes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There are many aspects to this, but one of the worst is the stress these bastards have caused --without giving a damn -- to decent people just trying to enjoy a hobby or to invest in something they like or run an honest business. If the government doesn't take some real action here, and seek to punish people, it's going to be a shame.

[scooter729]

I love collecting way too much for this scandal to pull me away from it. But it has served to re-reinforce the ‘buy the card not the holder’ motto.

There are a few cards in Heritage I am really looking to add - I certainly looked a bit closer at cards and a bit less accepting of what the flip says. But I am ready to spend to add to my collection and wouldn’t be upset if this meant slightly lower prices. Going forward, though I don’t expect any dramatic dip.

[Buythatcard]

I actually feel like business has picked up for me.

Do any other sellers feel that way?

[JollyElm]

I've always had "- PWCC" in every single ebay search (plus Dean's, Probstein and Burbank) I do, so I have never had to deal directly with their crapstorm. Doesn't protect me 100% from bad cards (Maybe they sold them to people I eventually bought them from? Dunno. Hope not.), but as a pretty small money collector, I still love the heck out of collecting cards, because it allows me to live in the past and not have to deal with how ridiculous my 2019 Mets are.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I've always had "- PWCC" in every single ebay search (plus Dean's, Probstein and Burbank) I do, so I have never had to deal directly with their crapstorm. Doesn't protect me 100% from bad cards (Maybe they sold them to people I eventually bought them from? Dunno. Hope not.), but as a pretty small money collector, I still love the heck out of collecting cards, because it allows me to live in the past and not have to deal with how ridiculous my 2019 Mets are.

Let me slip in a positive word for my LCS, Burbank Sportscards. They don't deserve to be lumped in with the PWCCs and Probsteins of the world: Rob and crew are as nice and honest as you could hope for. Their pricing can be high but they cater to people who want the card quickly and are willing to pay for the infrastructure to deliver it.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Let me slip in a positive word for my LCS, Burbank Sportscards. They don't deserve to be lumped in with the PWCCs and Probsteins of the world: Rob and crew are as nice and honest as you could hope for. Their pricing can be high but they cater to people who want the card quickly and are willing to pay for the infrastructure to deliver it.

I agree with Darren on this. I can't speak for him but, for me, it's not a matter of their honesty, it's the fact that they use (or at least used to) stock photos for many of their cards. Stock photos SUCK!