Opinions Wanted re: Mickey Mantle Program

[Hot Springs Bathers]

While I really have no idea about the speed of type setting, the 1956 Yankee highlight film shows the stadium staff preparing for a game day. One segment of film talks about and shows a printing press inside the stadium preparing that days scorecards/program. It gives the appearance of preparing the scorecard on a daily basis? Doak Ewing of Rare Sports Films sells DVds of that highlight film. I have the old VHS version.

[nolemmings]

Al, I am following your logic and don’t disagree with your findings, but am wondering where it leaves you. Caveat: I am not a program collector and have not researched this in any great detail, but it seems to me as if the lineups for all three scorecards could have been printed at the same time, inserted and then incorrectly distributed at the wrong games. In other words, Al may be right about what was intended to be Mantle’s first game scorecard, but others were used that night instead or as well.

Have any programs where the printed lineups match the April 17 box score been scored? The one Al shows is unscored, as is the other he auctioned awhile back. So too for the same scorecard lineup in an REA auction from 2015. Is it possible that the opening day lineups were printed and stapled but incorrectly assigned for distribution in game 3—the rainout? If so where does that leave things–an opening day program/scorecard that was never or only partially distributed? [BTW, I do not know at what time the rainout was called–before or after people showed up at the ballpark and may have bought their programs]

Both of the other two scorecards attributed to Mantle’s debut were scored, and apparently correctly, although of course these days there is always the possibility the pencil marks were added well after the fact. Still, there appears some anecdotal evidence, such as the sale of an Opening Day game ticket that allegedly accompanied one of the programs, that suggests these other lineup cards were distributed on April 17.

Finally, it makes sense to me that the scorecards for all three games would be printed at the same time where possible, as opposed to rushing for lineup info between games (especially if the opponent did not go out of its way to cooperate). The opening series of the season would present a great opportunity to do this, although it may have created confusion as well.

So, there you have it–clear as mud. My two cents.

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Finally, it makes sense to me that the scorecards for all three games would be printed at the same time where possible, as opposed to rushing for lineup info between games (especially if the opponent did not go out of its way to cooperate).

The bold part of the quote baffles me. I guess it's because this kind of information is easily and instantaneously available to all of the clubs these days.

I know it was a different time back then, but I'm just not able to figure out a reason why a club wouldn't cooperate, even if only so the other team will reciprocate at some point in the future if needed.

[nolemmings]

I'm sorry that you're baffled. Let me make it easy--I will delete that from my post, as it added very little in the first instance.

My point was that it would be preferable to get the needed info as soon as possible, and to print three days of lineups if you can. That implies some sense of cooperation as its basis, so I was not implying anything sinister. Time was short in between games as far as printing deadlines go, and I foolishly considered a scenario where the opposing manager, after a long, hard-fought game, did not hurry or skip his shower to make sure that the other team's local press or public relations team got his lineup card for the following day as soon as possible. Somehow I can see that not being a priority in certain situations.
But I will defer to others with knowledge of how things were back then.

[nolemmings]

I apologize if that last post came across as flippant. I really am curious to know more about how these scorecards were printed, and thought more forum members would have shared insight.

I do not recall pre-printed lineups showing up in the Twins'scorecards/programs at games I attended beginning mid-1960's, and it seems most other teams I've seen from that era lack them also, although again I have spent almost no time studying the matter. It would be a nice feature unless it proved to be too difficult to continue, so I am wondering when the practice waned. Then again, apparently the Cardinals ran them until 1982, so it was not overly difficult. I saw this in an article found after 10 minutes of online research:

"Starting lineups appeared in Cardinals scorecards through the 1982 season, facilitated by the luxury of having a printing press on-site at both Busch Stadium and Sportsman’s Park. The drill for getting lineup information from the manager’s office onto the scorecard was, literally, an overnight mission. Shortly after the end of a game, a member of the Cardinals’ PR staff visited the home and visitors clubhouses to retrieve each manager’s probable starting lineup for the next day’s game. The information was whisked off to the press room – located behind the right-field corner at Busch and under the first-base stands at Sportsman’s – and delivered to a two-man team of union printers that had just clocked in at the ballpark. Setting type by hand, the pressmen cranked up the old press and ran scorecards past dawn, typically 10,000 to 15,000 per game.

Kip Ingle, a member of the club’s media relations staff through the 1980s, remembers the drill in its twilight years.“Whitey (Herzog) was great, he always had his lineup ready,” Ingle recalled.“The visitors clubhouse could be another story. One manager, in particular, always seemed to be more occupied with visitors, and you’d be trying to pull the lineup out of his back pocket while hewas entertaining guests."
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/stl...rd_history.pdf

[RCMcKenzie]

Would Mantle have batted 3rd in his debut? I know he was a phenom, but that would be an impressive place to start given the other names in the lineup.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I apologize if that last post came across as flippant. I really am curious to know more about how these scorecards were printed, and thought more forum members would have shared insight.

I do not recall pre-printed lineups showing up in the Twins'scorecards/programs at games I attended beginning mid-1960's, and it seems most other teams I've seen from that era lack them also, although again I have spent almost no time studying the matter. It would be a nice feature unless it proved to be too difficult to continue, so I am wondering when the practice waned. Then again, apparently the Cardinals ran them until 1982, so it was not overly difficult. I saw this in an article found after 10 minutes of online research:

"Starting lineups appeared in Cardinals scorecards through the 1982 season, facilitated by the luxury of having a printing press on-site at both Busch Stadium and Sportsman’s Park. The drill for getting lineup information from the manager’s office onto the scorecard was, literally, an overnight mission. Shortly after the end of a game, a member of the Cardinals’ PR staff visited the home and visitors clubhouses to retrieve each manager’s probable starting lineup for the next day’s game. The information was whisked off to the press room – located behind the right-field corner at Busch and under the first-base stands at Sportsman’s – and delivered to a two-man team of union printers that had just clocked in at the ballpark. Setting type by hand, the pressmen cranked up the old press and ran scorecards past dawn, typically 10,000 to 15,000 per game.

Kip Ingle, a member of the club’s media relations staff through the 1980s, remembers the drill in its twilight years.“Whitey (Herzog) was great, he always had his lineup ready,” Ingle recalled.“The visitors clubhouse could be another story. One manager, in particular, always seemed to be more occupied with visitors, and you’d be trying to pull the lineup out of his back pocket while he was entertaining guests."
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/stl...rd_history.pdf

It looks like the older cardinals ones were just scorecards, a single sheet folded.
10-15K overnight is still pretty impressive.

https://vsaauctions.com/1960-cardina...-lot18346.aspx

Stapling it into a program is the slow part.

Well that's interesting... Looked up the company that made ours, and the current model doesn't look any different. It's also capable of running 5000 books an hour. Unless it's really changed since 1980-81, 15K programs overnight would be doable. I can't imagine it changed much between the 50's and 80's. Even if it was half speed, adding another machine and operator would fix that.
http://www.rosbackcompany.com/Rosbac...20Stitcher.pdf

The setup we had was almost identical to the bindery system shown at the lower left of the last page.

[Al C.risafulli]

Thanks, guys. To my knowledge, the only thing that changed in most scorecards was the centerfold page, the rest of the books were pre-printed, and I believe the lineups and rosters were actually just crash-printed onto a pre-printed page, so there's not much typesetting that needed to be done. Some clubs didn't even staple them in (I have a 1907 program in our next auction where the centerfold page is just folded and inserted). I figure if the New York Daily News could typeset, print and deliver 2.4 million newspapers a day, baseball teams can typeset and print a single page, particularly if the press is in the stadium itself.

Regarding the exhibition between Brooklyn and the Yankees two days before Opening Day, while Markland played in that game, boxscores would indicate that Phil Rizzuto was the starting shortstop. He had three at bats and five putouts before Markland came into the game. Rizzuto was also projected to be the starting shortstop in an April 16 exhibition against the Senators that was rained out. So it would make sense that if Rizzuto was the starting shortstop in an exhibition two days before opening day, and was the starting shortstop in a rained out exhibition the day before opening day, and if newspapers reported on April 12 that he would be the starting shortstop on opening day, that his name would appear in the scorecard as the starting shortstop for opening day.

Further, Mantle hit third and played right in the exhibition against Brooklyn and it was known the week prior that he'd be playing, so it makes sense that he would be printed in the scorecard for opening day and not left out of the lineup altogether.

I think the wildcard here isn't Markland in the starting lineup, which was unfortunately printed or projected nowhere - it's the presence of Hank Bauer in the starting lineup as the leadoff hitter in the THIRD program that's been sold as the Mantle Opening Day scorecard that I wonder about. Jackie Jensen started that game, but I've seen an example of the scorecard with Bauer's name crossed out (thanks to an astute collector who sent it to me) and Jensen's name penciled in, and then scored as the Opening Day.

So there are two different scorecards out there that have actually been SCORED as if they were Mantle's first game and sold in the hobby - neither of them are the one I have, as both the ones that have been consigned to me were blank (the one I've got now has the pitcher's names written in, but that could've been done at any time).

I don't question whether the scorecards can be printed on game day - thousands of milestone scorecards with the correct lineups printed in them for other games serve as pretty solid indicators, to me, that that was common. What I question is which one was printed on the actual Opening Day, and I'm not sure we're going to be able to unequivocally answer the question, sadly.

-Al