T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, VOL II......Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

[Rhotchkiss]

Real nice 👍

[Sean]

That's a great Drum.

[tedzan]

barrysloate
6-5-2019

Originally Posted by barrysloate

We've had this discussion before, but let's give it another shot. With regard to its design, it is an exact match to other T206's. But in terms of its distribution, it is entirely different. All the other 15 brands issued hundreds of different players and poses, as an incentive for consumers to purchase more packs. Ty Cobb tobacco, on the other hand, issued only a single pose. And that is not consistent with T206's as we know them. I say it's not part of the set, but have no problem if the hobby wishes to include it.

[tedzan]

Hi Barry


Yes, we've had this conversation several times before. And yes this card is very unique in the vast population of white-bordered tobacco cards printed and issued from 1909 - 1919.

Newspaper clippings tell us ATC introduced the Ty Cobb tobacco Tin in late 1909. The graphic on this Tin pictures the Ty Cobb (bat on shoulder) pose.....from the 150 Series T206's.

The card, however, is that of the red portrait pose of Cobb. This is consistent with my research that indicates that this pose of Cobb was printed by American Lithographic when they
first started issuing their 350 Series cards (circa....early 1910). Anyhow, this Ty Cobb card was a promotional premium. While some were handed out to customers, other cards were
most likely inserted in the Tin. In any event, my guess is that very few of them were printed (perhaps a single sheet of approx. 100 cards).

So, should this Ty Cobb card be included in the T206 set...I tend to think so. But, I do understand why other collectors would disagree. If I could afford this card, I would put it in my
T206 all - SOVEREIGN set, since it has a green colored back


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

barrysloate
6-6-2019

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Hi Ted,
Allow me to offer a more detailed explanation for my position:

The years 1909-11 were fiercely competitive for the various American tobacco brands, and they went to great lengths to sign up baseball players and to issue literally millions of cards each to include in their cigarette packs. This was a major marketing endeavor that turned out to be wildly successful.

Ty Cobb tobacco, on the other hand, had no part in this at all. If they printed only a single sheet of 100 cards, as you suggest, that sounds to me like no more than a one-day marketing campaign, limited to a very small geographic area. Yes, they "borrowed" the red image of Cobb, and designed the back to conform with what was circulating in America, but they were not at all competing with the other brands. How could they? How could a hundred cards compete with the millions being produced elsewhere?

And even if the American Lithograph Company printed them, that in itself doesn't make them part of the national promotion. So I will go so far as to say they have nothing at all to do with T206's, other than they have a similar appearance, something not uncommon in the 1910-era.

That said, if we took a survey, I'm guessing the majority would say they are T-206's. And that's okay, I don't mind taking a minority position. And why are you and I the only ones discussing this? Don't others want to take a break from the PSA/PWCC debacle and talk real baseball cards?

[tedzan]

Hi Barry

1st, I will answer your last comment regarding the "PSA/PWCC debacle". It has been "sucking" most of the oxygen out of this forum for weeks.
It's not surprising to me that you and I are the only two guys on this forum talking about this Ty Cobb / TY COBB post.

Anyway, my guess that approx. 100 cards were printed by American Lithographic, which were shipped to the Reidsville Plant in N.C., may be an
underestimated amount on my part. However since only 23 of these cards have been discovered as of this date, I may not be too far off on this
number of only 100.

Perhaps, we will get some more guys chiming in here with their opinions on this subject.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.