SGC grading standards

[Throttlesteer]

Overall, SGC and PSA seem to be getting stricter. But, it will always be one person's opinion.

[MichelaiTorres83]

The green cobb sgc 4 in pwcc
The cobb bat sgc 5.5 in pwcc
The bat on sov 150 sgc 4 in pwcc
The evers portrait sgc 4 in heritage
The red cobb old mill sgc 4.5 in pwcc
The red cobb sgc 4 piedmont 460 in pwcc

The list goes on. Those are just examples.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by MichelaiTorres83

The green cobb sgc 4 in pwcc
The cobb bat sgc 5.5 in pwcc
The bat on sov 150 sgc 4 in pwcc
The evers portrait sgc 4 in heritage
The red cobb old mill sgc 4.5 in pwcc
The red cobb sgc 4 piedmont 460 in pwcc

The list goes on. Those are just examples.

PWCC and Heritage may not be the best yardstick for the rest of the hobby. I realize higher grade green Cobbs are getting rarer outside of AHs. But, both mentioned always seem to command premiums, regardless of TPG. They also get examples that are superior for the grade.

[MichelaiTorres83]

My post was not about the prices. The auction house is irrelevant. There is simply a large percentage of cards that would appear to be under graded compared to hundreds of other examples, maybe even a thousand.

They are all of a sudden showing up in bulk?

[Throttlesteer]

Sorry if I misinterpreted your post. The AHs are relevant because all of the examples you identified came from either PWCC or Heritage. They are both known for selling "undergraded" or superior examples for their respective grade (hence why they fetch bigger $$$$). I think the jury is still out on SGC as a whole. But, the common thought is both SGC and PSA are becoming tougher regardless of grading tier. In another thread, I mentioned that many cards with the recent SGC and latest-generation PSA holders seem to be .5-1.0 grades lower than older generation holders. Many new VG cards would easily have fetched a 4 a few years back. Check out the T206 Johnson Portrait PSA 3 on Ebay right now. Tell me if you think that has a shot-in-hell chance of getting that grade today.

Both PSA and SGC can cherry pick a specific auction result to try and boost their individual market reputations. But, I haven't seen any evidence that SGC is consistently outselling PSA. It's undoubtedly what they're trying to portray (per your second point).

I will also note that there are a large number of re-holders (identified by their cert #) showing up, banking on your observation.

[MichelaiTorres83]

Yes. There was a shift to harder grades from PSA a while back and no matching shift from SGC. That is why their prices plummeted in comparison.

You don’t think there has now been a shift in SGC to tougher grades based on everything listed in one of their new holders? You only think PWCC got these under graded items in bulk and didn’t high end sticker them?

Again, price and auction has no part in my question, just holder, grade and card quality.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by MichelaiTorres83

Yes. There was a shift to harder grades from PSA a while back and no matching shift from SGC. That is why their prices plummeted in comparison.

You don’t think there has now been a shift in SGC to tougher grades based on everything listed in one of their new holders? You only think PWCC got these under graded items in bulk and didn’t high end sticker them?

I agree with your timeline. I think PSA realized the change with the pyramid holders. I do believe SGC is applying stricter standards since the new holder and website redesign. It does seem like they're trying to rebrand in hopes of competing with PSA's perceived quality. The AHs may skew the perception a bit, even with non-stickered submissions.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by MichelaiTorres83

My post was not about the prices. The auction house is irrelevant. There is simply a large percentage of cards that would appear to be under graded compared to hundreds of other examples, maybe even a thousand.

They are all of a sudden showing up in bulk?

Under graded or look under graded compared to previously over graded cards? I think it is the later. I see very few cards that are under graded, but lots of over graded cards (in old holders?).

[MichelaiTorres83]

The black label cards appear to have harder grading standards when compared to SGC grading standards during their green label phase, excluding reholdered cards, prices and auction house.

Does that clear it up?

[CW]

Yes. There was a shift to harder grades from PSA a while back and no matching shift from SGC. That is why their prices plummeted in comparison.

You don’t think there has now been a shift in SGC to tougher grades based on everything listed in one of their new holders?

I realize the question here wasn't addressed to me, but I would like to comment and give my educated opinion on these statements.

I disagree that there was no "matching shift" by SGC in their grading standards. While any collector's observations will be a small sample compared to all the cards out there, I noticed SGC toughening up on grading at least a couple years before these new holders were introduced. This would be especially pertaining to their grading on corners.

Many years ago you would find SGC 5s with corners that were too rounded for an "EX" graded card. SGC became tougher graders on these cards, knocking them down to VG-EX and lower starting a few years ago. At least this was my perception.

Also, I don't believe SGC's prices ever "plummeted" in comparison to PSA. Sure, SGC always lagged behind in pricing with cards of the same grade compared to PSA, but on the cards I follow (prewar) I have not witnessed any plummeting prices on SGC graded cards compared to PSA.

To answer your final question, yes, I have seen a shift to harder grading by SGC but it has been quite awhile before the change to the new holders.

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[bnorth]

Originally Posted by MichelaiTorres83

The black label cards appear to have harder grading standards when compared to SGC grading standards during their green label phase, excluding reholdered cards, prices and auction house.

Does that clear it up?

In modern cards I have noticed the opposite. I am a huge SGC fan but have seen several highly over graded modern cards with the new black label.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by MichelaiTorres83

The black label cards appear to have harder grading standards when compared to SGC grading standards during their green label phase, excluding reholdered cards, prices and auction house.

Does that clear it up?

I posted this on another thread a few weeks ago after getting some cards back from SGC. I was disappointed with the grades in that I didn't expect to get 8's or better but when compared to other cards that SGC graded, I was hoping for better than I received.

The old flip picture is images I pulled from eBay with the new flips being the cards I just received back. There is no doubt they tightened their standards on grading especially when it comes to corners.

Why the pics are showing up sideways I have no idea.