Did I buy a Fake Marquard Signed T206?

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

This is why autograph authentication is such a metaphysical concept, rooted in idealism.



No one witnessed Marquard sign that card. At this point, the only thing that matters is that you think it's real. If you think it's real, then it's real.



Nothing will ever be certain when it comes to that signature.

You could make the same argument for every autograph ever signed that you don't know the authenticity unless you witness it signed yourself. With that said, there are many many techniques to prove an autograph authentic.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

You could make the same argument for every autograph ever signed that you don't know the authenticity unless you witness it signed yourself. With that said, there are many many techniques to prove an autograph authentic.

No, the same argument can't be made for mediums like legal contracts and checks, where the cost of recreating it by means of forgery would far outweigh the financial benefit to be gained by selling it as authentic.

It boils down to cost/benefit analysis and that Rube Marquard card, in that condition, has very little cost, and a lot of economic benefit if someone can place a signature on it. It's not a particularly hard signature to forge either, especially with a thick felt tipped pen.

Just something to think about.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

No, the same argument can't be made for mediums like legal contracts and checks, where the cost of recreating it by means of forgery would far outweigh the financial benefit to be gained by selling it as authentic.



It boils down to cost/benefit analysis and that Rube Marquard card, in that condition, has very little cost, and a lot of economic benefit if someone can place a signature on it. It's not a particularly hard signature to forge either, especially with a thick felt tipped pen.



Just something to think about.

Yes, it can. I've seen fake signed checks, I'm sure you have as well. I don't consider a legal document to be an autograph in my opinion. True, but unless you recreate an historically rare signature that's a different story.

If that were the case, why don't we see more signed T206 cards? A signed Larry Doyle just sold for $800 or so and it's probably a $5-$15 card raw. Why don't people buy them up and place a signature on it, his is easy as well.

His signature may not be hard to forge but he has some tells with his signature.

Trust me, I think about it all the time unfortunately lol.

In the end I think it's good and looks just like the ones I've owned and many I've seen. I have had Mike Trout autographs I got signed in person myself that have both passed and failed authenticity. Like you said, boils down to if YOU believe it's authentic or not.

[SetBuilder]

I had a feeling the card was signed recently, so I went on Worthpoint and found this on page 6.

I think this pretty much means case closed.

The signature is fake.

Embarrassing gaffe for JSA.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

I had a feeling the card was signed recently, so I went on Worthpoint and found this on page 6.



I think this pretty much means case closed.



The signature is fake.



Embarrassing gaffe for JSA.

Damn good research. Makes me question mine now unfortunately. When did the card sell on Worth Point out of curiosity since it's in a new holder.

This could get traced back to the forger...

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Damn good research. Makes me question mine now unfortunately. When did the card sell on Worth Point out of curiosity since it's in a new holder.

This could get traced back to the forger...

Feb 7, 2018.

Link here: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ube-1913448029

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Feb 7, 2018.



Link here: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ube-1913448029

I don't check pop reports much but is there a way to check submission dates for the serial numbers on the case?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Feb 7, 2018.

Link here: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ube-1913448029

That is not very long ago that PSA card sold. When was the auction start/finish date on the autoed card. Couldn't have been too far apart from purchase to consignment.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

I had a feeling the card was signed recently, so I went on Worthpoint and found this on page 6.

I think this pretty much means case closed.

The signature is fake.

Embarrassing gaffe for JSA.

Wow. Good catch.

[daves_resale_shop]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

I had a feeling the card was signed recently, so I went on Worthpoint and found this on page 6.

I think this pretty much means case closed.

The signature is fake.

Embarrassing gaffe for JSA.

Nice detective work Manny!

[h2oya311]

Good on SGC to not just accept the LOA as gospel and to make their own unbiased determination.

Impressive detective work too!!

[HercDriver]

Not only is it embarrassing to JSA, but I would say kudos to the guys at SGC for being able to nail it without having the proof behind it. They did their homework, instead of relying on a pice of paper. Nice work, SGC!

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

You could make the same argument for every autograph ever signed that you don't know the authenticity unless you witness it signed yourself. With that said, there are many many techniques to prove an autograph authentic.

"Prove"?

I respectfully disagree.

Doug

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

"Prove"?



I respectfully disagree.



Doug

Yeah, you're probably right. I was reaching a little there LOL

[The Nasty Nati]

It makes you wonder if there are Larry Doyle auto fakes out there too. Certainly not as valuable as a HOFer, but those tend to go for $1k+ now.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

It makes you wonder if there are Larry Doyle auto fakes out there too. Certainly not as valuable as a HOFer, but those tend to go for $1k+ now.

I'm sure there are -- but I have not seen any that I thought were suspicious. They're all signed in blue ballpoint, and look reasonably similar. Marquards, for whatever reason, have more variation -- and there has been plenty of evidence that certain versions may have been wife-signed.

Keep in mind that 10 of the 26 known Doyles all came from the same collection that was sold in "The Great Pittsburgh Find of Signed T206 Cards" in 2007. Only 4 of the 50+ known Marquards came from that collection. Marquard, being a Hall of Famer, signed a whole lot more stuff and is more susceptible to forgery.