Who should demand insurance?

[frankbmd]

It has always been my understanding that a deal isn't done until the buyer has the card or any other product in hand. I have almost always self insured the hundreds of lower valued cards that I have shipped. Had I insured them through the Post Office or other carriers, I would have spent thousands on insurance. I have had to eat less than $50 by self-insuring. Larger ticket items should of course be insured and/or registered and the seller should have a rough idea of when to do it, ie when the potential loss exceeds what you are willing to eat.

So, when I see a listing where shipping and insurance is included, does the fact that it is insured matter to me as a buyer. Need it even be mentioned? The cost of the insurance should be paid by the seller and not the buyer. In the auction house setting should there be a surcharge for both shipping and insurance above the winning bid? With an auction house the insurance should be paid by the buyer's premium. Shipping is usually but not always extra.

A seller is the only party in the transaction who is protected by insuring the item.
The buyer should receive a full refund if the item is not delivered. If a seller insures every package that he ships regardless of value, then the buyer can be certain that he is probably paying for it in the cost of a fixed price purchase or at least part of otherwise. The buyer will not benefit from the package being insured. He simply should get a refund in lieu of the product he purchased.

As a buyer do any of you request insurance and if so why?

As a seller are you comfortable with the cost of insurance relative to the amount of any claims you may have collected?

Insurance of any type is a hedge against catastrophic loss, but in the long run do you get what you pay for, particularly at the Post Office?

[Peter_Spaeth]

As a seller I'll only buy it on a card worth 1000 or more, but it's probably a waste -- everything gets there eventually. As a buyer it's not my problem given ebay/paypal burden on seller to show delivery.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As a seller I'll only buy it on a card worth 1000 or more, but it's probably a waste -- everything gets there eventually. As a buyer it's not my problem given ebay/paypal burden on seller to show delivery.

The last time I didn't include insurance on an expensive card, I regretted it...it got damaged along the way - as Peter stated, '...it's probably a waste...' - but I'll add 'don't tug on Superman's cape'.

[hcv123]

Regardless of what is "assumed" or the legal details, I think it is in everyone's best interest that all terms (including insurance and who is expected to pay for it or not) are laid out as clearly as possible prior to a transaction.

That said. When I buy - I do expect that an item will get to me in the stated condition or it is on the seller unless otherwise discussed and as a seller - I use insurance as a hedge - usually "self insuring" on smaller transactions and insuring for less on larger ones

[Leon]

To address the bottom questions first.
1. Part of the rules of bidding is they (AH's) require their shipping and insurance, generally speaking, or your account to send it on, which releases them from liability.

2.No, for me, insurance hasn't paid off vs the claims I have filed (almost none).

3.Well, I think you get what you pay for at the Post Office. IF something gets lost it's covered. But as a good value, personally, I don't think it is.

And yes deals are deals and it's always on the shipping end of a deal to get the item to the recipient. I don't care if they buy insurance or not but if they don't then they have to eat a lost or damaged package. I shipped a sub 100 dollar card today, via USPS, and didn't opt for any insurance extra. With more expensive cards I usually overnight them without insurance....and I assume a tiny bit of risk that way.

Originally Posted by frankbmd

It has always been my understanding that a deal isn't done until the buyer has the card or any other product in hand. I have almost always self insured the hundreds of lower valued cards that I have shipped. Had I insured them through the Post Office or other carriers, I would have spent thousands on insurance. I have had to eat less than $50 by self-insuring. Larger ticket items should of course be insured and/or registered and the seller should have a rough idea of when to do it, ie when the potential loss exceeds what you are willing to eat.

So, when I see a listing where shipping and insurance is included, does the fact that it is insured matter to me as a buyer. Need it even be mentioned? The cost of the insurance should be paid by the seller and not the buyer. In the auction house setting should there be a surcharge for both shipping and insurance above the winning bid? With an auction house the insurance should be paid by the buyer's premium. Shipping is usually but not always extra.

A seller is the only party in the transaction who is protected by insuring the item.
The buyer should receive a full refund if the item is not delivered. If a seller insures every package that he ships regardless of value, then the buyer can be certain that he is probably paying for it in the cost of a fixed price purchase or at least part of otherwise. The buyer will not benefit from the package being insured. He simply should get a refund in lieu of the product he purchased.

As a buyer do any of you request insurance and if so why?

As a seller are you comfortable with the cost of insurance relative to the amount of any claims you may have collected?

Insurance of any type is a hedge against catastrophic loss, but in the long run do you get what you pay for, particularly at the Post Office?

[pokerplyr80]

As a buyer I have never requested insurance. I think it's on the seller if the card doesn't get to me. As a seller I have paid for insurance many times but have never filed a claim. I have heard stories from others that lead me to believe collecting on a USPS insurance claim is not an easy process. And I was told by a fedex employee that they will let you declare a value of your shipment as high as you want, charge you accordingly, but will not pay out more than 1k if something goes wrong.

[sb1]

Postal insurance is not the cheapest, but the few times in the past 30 years that I had to file a claim, every one of them was paid in full and fairly quickly. You have to wait 60 days to file a claim.

Please be aware for those using private insurance(CIA) and perhaps others, they have a $200 deductible on each claim. Leon and I did get paid on the only claim we had, but ate a $200 deductible. The item was later recovered(a postal employee was taking packages and they caught him), I actually found the card on ebay and directed CIA to him. We did buy the card back, less the deductible as I recall and reauctioned it.

AND.. as some stated UPS and Fed/EX will sell you any amount, but it does not cover the type of collectible we send back and fourth, so money wasted.

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I have almost always self insured the hundreds of lower valued cards that I have shipped. Had I insured them through the Post Office or other carriers, I would have spent thousands on insurance. I have had to eat less than $50 by self-insuring. Larger ticket items should of course be insured and/or registered and the seller should have a rough idea of when to do it, ie when the potential loss exceeds what you are willing to eat.

Frank, what do you mean by "self insurance". Are you saying you just ship it without insurance and will pay for it yourself if something happens, or are you actually buying your own insurance from someone? I just wondered it it's something I should get if I start selling online.

[swarmee]

"Self insurance" means paying it yourself out of pocket (or taking the loss) and not buying insurance.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Frank, what do you mean by "self insurance". Are you saying you just ship it without insurance and will pay for it yourself if something happens, or are you actually buying your own insurance from someone? I just wondered it it's something I should get if I start selling online.

Asked

Originally Posted by swarmee

"Self insurance" means paying it yourself out of pocket (or taking the loss) and not buying insurance.

And answered, correctly.

[steve B]

When I was selling, I would do insurance if the buyer wanted it. I didn't charge anything beyond the cost of the USPS insurance. Most of the stuff I was selling was really inexpensive, so buying insurance was pointless.

I did insure a few expensive packages. Stuff like a plate I sold for a bit over 600, the buyer was surprised when my first email said I'd pick up the insurance. At the time most ebay sellers were charging a lot for insurance. That only cost me maybe $2 at the time.

A friend of mine had a cylinder phonograph damaged in shipping, and the insurance was awkward. Basically he had to take it to one of the bigger post offices, and show them how it was packed. Then he had to take it to someone who did phonograph repairs, and get a written estimate. Then the seller had to take the written estimate plus some paperwork from the PO here, to their local office to make the claim as they'd only pay the person who paid for the insurance. On the plus side, once the running around and paperwork were done it was paid in full in well under a month. I think a week to the seller, and a week for the sellers check to get to my friend.
All that relies on a cooperative seller though, so it may go differently for someone else.

[Edwolf1963]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-1911-T...c&LH_Auction=1

Here is one of those insurance is on/option of the buyer seller‘s note along with the not refunding anything that’s lost or damaged if insurance isn’t taken. I thought eBay put a stop to this. .. I know they won’t hesitate to refund if it is lost, stolen, damaged regardless of what the seller claims here, insurance or not.

BTW, the write up and value claims are comical. What is “SCD“ value???

[Kenny Cole]

I sue insurance companies for a living. Insurance is just legalized gambling, but the house makes the rules as they go. You can certainly buy it, and I do for my mandatory auto, my health, and my homeowners, but the latter two are probably somewhere around 50-50 if I have a big claim. For a lot of carriers it seems like the breaking point is the premium paid versus the amount of the claim. I have three trials between now and January against BCBS on awful health insurance denials, the worst of which the judge has already ruled was covered and should have been paid. But the claims haven't been paid and keep getting denied. I'm sure the Federal Judge I'm in front of will be very pleased with getting the finger from the defendant.

As Peter said, most things get there eventually. I would probably buy it for real expensive things that I didn't want to eat the cost of, in hopes that the claim might be paid, but I wouldn't on stuff I could afford to eat. In my estimation that's just throwing money away.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

What is “SCD“ value???

Used to be a price guide.

[itslarry]

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-1911-T...c&LH_Auction=1

Here is one of those insurance is on/option of the buyer seller‘s note along with the not refunding anything that’s lost or damaged if insurance isn’t taken. I thought eBay put a stop to this. .. I know they won’t hesitate to refund if it is lost, stolen, damaged regardless of what the seller claims here, insurance or not.

BTW, the write up and value claims are comical. What is “SCD“ value???

They can say what they want, doesn't mean anything.
It's like when people say "no refunds" on ebay.

Seller HAS to get the product to me undamaged, or else they're paying for it.

[Leon]

That's got to be fun sometimes.

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

I sue insurance companies for a living. Insurance is just legalized gambling, but the house makes the rules as they go. You can certainly buy it, and I do for my mandatory auto, my health, and my homeowners, but the latter two are probably somewhere around 50-50 if I have a big claim. For a lot of carriers it seems like the breaking point is the premium paid versus the amount of the claim. I have three trials between now and January against BCBS on awful health insurance denials, the worst of which the judge has already ruled was covered and should have been paid. But the claims haven't been paid and keep getting denied. I'm sure the Federal Judge I'm in front of will be very pleased with getting the finger from the defendant.

As Peter said, most things get there eventually. I would probably buy it for real expensive things that I didn't want to eat the cost of, in hopes that the claim might be paid, but I wouldn't on stuff I could afford to eat. In my estimation that's just throwing money away.

[Tabe]

As a buyer, I don't request insurance. My reason is simple - if there's a problem, I get my money from the seller, not the seller's insurance. So why would I care if there's insurance? Insurance is there to reimburse the seller after they refund the buyer. Period.

[ALR-bishop]

My experience is it is all very clear cut....until stuff happens