Safe Haven Furever

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Great job gentlemen, in the same spirit we are matching 100% of whatever this tough card goes for including the BP and donating to Safe Haven Furever.

awesome gesture!!! hope it gets a bid!!!

[Bicem]

Got a bid. Last one I believe sold for around $300 so hopefully more to come!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Got a bid. Last one I believe sold for around $300 so hopefully more to come!

Thanks for doing this, Jeff (and all who have helped) It's appreciated.
Sort of unrelated to Safe Haven Furever, as I do my own rescue fostering for a rescue here locally in the Dallas area, both dogs shown above are being taken to Keller, Texas this evening, at a meeting point, for their long ride to The Minnesota Pit Bull Rescue tomorrow. It is always sad to see them go but at least they weren't, and won't be, put down. Both Miles and Hershey have been the most perfect dogs anyone could want. They don't have any aggressiveness in them. Hershey has been with my other 5 dogs with nary a problem. They all get along fine. I couldn't let Miles in with all of the others for a few reasons. He is sweet but just too big to mix with all of them, but more importantly he has been getting first aid for his right eye the whole time here. It got bruised somehow and is being tended to. Otherwise he could have mixed with some of them at a time.
But they are gone this evening. Onto the next ones.
Thanks again also to our members for letting us do this stuff on the forum without getting too upset.

[Chuck]

Yeah, all pit bull owners say how sweet and gentle their dogs are, and never can believe it when their dog bites some little girl's arm off, or rips the throat out of some little boy. Every month or so you hear about these dogs attacking and maiming or killing another child - and yet these dogs still aren't banned. Mystifying to me...

I hope the owner of that rott-pit mix doesn't have young children - putting a yellow bow on its head doesn't change that dog's true disposition.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Chuck

Yeah, all pit bull owners say how sweet and gentle their dogs are, and never can believe it when their dog bites some little girl's arm off, or rips the throat out of some little boy. Every month or so you hear about these dogs attacking and maiming or killing another child - and yet these dogs still aren't banned. Mystifying to me...

I hope the owner of that rott-pit mix doesn't have young children - putting a yellow bow on its head doesn't change that dog's true disposition.

You sir are a moron!!

[clydepepper]

This last exchange (posts #'s 9 & 10) cries out for another request to spayed or neuter your pet. There are already plenty of good dogs available at the many, many shelters...go get one and train him or her right.

[Leon]

I deleted the tirade, though I stand behind what was said, and will only say you are sadly wrong. Here is one of many studies on the subject. Read up on Pit Bulls, from scientific studies, and then write responses which are informed. The media touts pit bull problems, in particular, because it sells. Furthermore when studies do show Pits attack more often it is always due to external factors surrounding the specific dog (almost 100% of the time they have been abused) , not the dog breed that is the issue.

https://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/ab...ma.243.12.1726

and the conclusion included in the above research of Dog Bite Related Fatalities between 2000-2009-

Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Most DBRFs (Dog Bite Related Fatalities) were characterized by coincident, preventable factors; breed was not one of these. Study results supported previous recommendations for multifactorial approaches, instead of single-factor solutions such as breed-specific legislation, for dog bite prevention.

Originally Posted by Chuck

Yeah, all pit bull owners say how sweet and gentle their dogs are, and never can believe it when their dog bites some little girl's arm off, or rips the throat out of some little boy. Every month or so you hear about these dogs attacking and maiming or killing another child - and yet these dogs still aren't banned. Mystifying to me...

I hope the owner of that rott-pit mix doesn't have young children - putting a yellow bow on its head doesn't change that dog's true disposition.

[PowderedH2O]

I've had two rescue pits, one rescue pit/pointer mix, two purebred rottweilers, and a number of other rescue dogs over the last 20 years. Only one of my dogs has ever bitten anyone: The wife's mini dachshund that she bought from a pet store. The only thing the big bad pits and rotties ever did was lick someone. One morning I came out and noticed that a group of young kittens we were fostering was missing. I was worried that the rottie might have done something. Yep. I found her in the living room on the floor with eight kittens nursing on her. I've never worried about my pits or rotties and they have been the most loving, trustworthy animals I have ever known.

[Chuck]

This will be my only response on this issue, because this is a baseball card forum, and I have no wish to get into a drawn out argument on this issue here. The AVMA is in the minority on the issue of the dangers of the pit bull breed, and their studies are at odds with most others that have been conducted (and no, I'm not going to cite them here - if anyone is interested they're not too hard to find online). For whatever reason, the AVMA is a staunch defender of the breed, and their studies are what pit bull defenders always fall back on - but the AVMA's conclusions are simply not supported by the data, which is that about 2/3 of all deaths from dog attacks in this country are due to pit bulls and pit mixes. This is a fact. The figures for serious dog bite injuries are also skewed heavily towards pit bulls. Because of this, a growing number of jurisdictions in this country are putting restrictions on pit bulls, along with insurance companies, airlines, and even the military, which does not allow soldiers to own pit bulls if they live on base or in military housing. But I guess all of these municipalities and organizations are "uninformed."

The dogs are what they are - they've been bred for hundreds of years for dog fighting, aggressiveness, and lethality - it's in their nature. It's also not their fault - this was instilled in them by humans. And now they've been reintroduced into general ownership - but they simply don't have the same history of domestication as the other common breeds. And that's why these dogs are more prone to be involved in aggressive incidents, despite the environment they've been raised in - it's in their nature - and when these dogs are startled, or feel threatened, or are faced with an out of the ordinary situation, they are much more prone to react in accordance with this nature - which is with viciousness and aggressiveness. And with their strength and strong jaws, they can do much more damage than an ordinary dog can. In short, these are very dangerous animals, and in my opinion, should not be allowed to be owned by anyone.

This breed certainly has its defenders though, and their devotion often borders on fanaticism. I've often wondered about this, as we are just talking about dogs here - but it's been said that you can tell a lot about a person by the type of dog he owns, so I guess it's not surprising that pit bull owners lash out as aggressively as they do when challenged. Just a personal opinion, but I think if "dog people" spent half the time they devote to supporting these animals towards making sure kids don't go to bed hungry at night, this world would truly be a better place.

It would have been interesting to read your "tirade" that you deleted Leon, and the vitriol that you no doubt spewed in my direction. Call me what you like, but if this conversation dissuades just one person from bringing one of these animals into their home, especially if you have kids, or live around kids, then it's worth it. There are several examples of families that have adopted one of these "rescue pits," and have wound up losing a child because of it. Read the Wikipedia page on dog attack fatalities for examples - although fair warning, it makes for some tough reading.

[icollectDCsports]

My guess is that "dog people" are likely also "people people" who contribute in many ways to make the world more humane for all of us.

[Leon]

Chuck
If you think this "fighting mentality" is in pits when they are born then there is not much else to discuss. I only hope people become more educated on the subject. I can help educate others. I can't comprehend for others.
Have a good day.

ps...I have never owned a pitbull myself. Up until a month or two ago I had never cared for one. I would 100% own one in the future if the opportunity arose.
That said, I am not looking for more of my own dogs at the moment, 4 is enough.

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by Chuck

This will be my only response on this issue, because this is a baseball card forum, and I have no wish to get into a drawn out argument on this issue here. The AVMA is in the minority on the issue of the dangers of the pit bull breed, and their studies are at odds with most others that have been conducted (and no, I'm not going to cite them here - if anyone is interested they're not too hard to find online). For whatever reason, the AVMA is a staunch defender of the breed, and their studies are what pit bull defenders always fall back on - but the AVMA's conclusions are simply not supported by the data, which is that about 2/3 of all deaths from dog attacks in this country are due to pit bulls and pit mixes. This is a fact. The figures for serious dog bite injuries are also skewed heavily towards pit bulls. Because of this, a growing number of jurisdictions in this country are putting restrictions on pit bulls, along with insurance companies, airlines, and even the military, which does not allow soldiers to own pit bulls if they live on base or in military housing. But I guess all of these municipalities and organizations are "uninformed."

The dogs are what they are - they've been bred for hundreds of years for dog fighting, aggressiveness, and lethality - it's in their nature. It's also not their fault - this was instilled in them by humans. And now they've been reintroduced into general ownership - but they simply don't have the same history of domestication as the other common breeds. And that's why these dogs are more prone to be involved in aggressive incidents, despite the environment they've been raised in - it's in their nature - and when these dogs are startled, or feel threatened, or are faced with an out of the ordinary situation, they are much more prone to react in accordance with this nature - which is with viciousness and aggressiveness. And with their strength and strong jaws, they can do much more damage than an ordinary dog can. In short, these are very dangerous animals, and in my opinion, should not be allowed to be owned by anyone.

This breed certainly has its defenders though, and their devotion often borders on fanaticism. I've often wondered about this, as we are just talking about dogs here - but it's been said that you can tell a lot about a person by the type of dog he owns, so I guess it's not surprising that pit bull owners lash out as aggressively as they do when challenged. Just a personal opinion, but I think if "dog people" spent half the time they devote to supporting these animals towards making sure kids don't go to bed hungry at night, this world would truly be a better place.

It would have been interesting to read your "tirade" that you deleted Leon, and the vitriol that you no doubt spewed in my direction. Call me what you like, but if this conversation dissuades just one person from bringing one of these animals into their home, especially if you have kids, or live around kids, then it's worth it. There are several examples of families that have adopted one of these "rescue pits," and have wound up losing a child because of it. Read the Wikipedia page on dog attack fatalities for examples - although fair warning, it makes for some tough reading.

Misinformed and ignorant. Always the dog's fault.
Feel sorry for you.