Auction House RULES

[buymycards]

So, why is this OK? The employees are able to shill the bids for their own items, and for items that are consigned by others. How is this different from the Mastro shilling?

Rick

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by buymycards

So, why is this OK? The employees are able to shill the bids for their own items, and for items that are consigned by others. How is this different from the Mastro shilling?

Rick

I guess from a legal standpoint, the difference is that HA discloses it, so it isn't fraud. Whether it's appropriate is a value judgment.

[swarmee]

It's also legal in the state that they operate in, and it's fully disclosed (albeit in a document only 1/10 or so of the bidders have actually read). So that's why it's not criminal, while Mastro's was. Now if Heritage uses SecretSquirrelBidProtection and allows you to place a max bid, telling you that it's encrypted data they can't see, but they can, then that would constitute fraud. #runonsentence

Forgot to add: Cider House RULES

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by buymycards

So, why is this OK? The employees are able to shill the bids for their own items, and for items that are consigned by others. How is this different from the Mastro shilling?

Rick

Shill bidding is NOT illegal in Texas or many other states. There are reasons many AH's are located in the states they are in.

That and a very high percentage of buyers/bidders just don't care who they buy from as long as they get their must have item.

I was discussing the Candiman AH and the responses form members in that thread with a few other members. The thing we found most disturbing is the amount of hate they got for running their little scams. Then these same exact people promote and brag about buys from sellers that do more fraud in a single auction than Daniel has done in his lifetime.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I don't know of any state where it's legal to "shill" bid and then remove a bid if you accidentally go too far which is what the clause above appears to say. In PA an owner is allowed to bid on his own items, but if he wins he has to pay the juice to take his item back. We as an auction house do not allow an owner to bid on their own item, and we don't place any bids ourselves on any items. Occasionally I have an employee who wants something for their collection, we disclose that at the auction.

[Rhotchkiss]

Disclosed or not, it’s definitly messed up. Will I bid in Heritage’s next auction? Yes, if they have something I want. Sad but true

That said, I think there is a difference between shilling (inflating prices) and the auction house or it’s employees bidding on something with the intent to win and pay for it; like a real estate broker making an offer on a client’s listing.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Disclosed or not, it’s definitly messed up. Will I bid in Heritage’s next auction? Yes, if they have something I want. Sad but true

L.

I, too, would bid, but I guess I’d ask, why should you or I or anyone else apologize for bidding with Heritage? I don’t understand the sentiment expressed by others in this thread that the way to show your displeasure with their policies is to avoid bidding. That just means someone else will step in and fill the void.

End of day, AHs don’t make their money from bids; they make them from consignments. Bidders will always be there, but if a firm has nothing to sell, they’re done. I, for one, don’t appreciate the policies Heritage has, and frankly, I think their biggest transgression is that they nuke their scans, so I would not consider consigning my cards there. Clearly though, I’m in the minority, as they seem to land amazing sh*t each and every auction.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The scans are a mixed blessing. On the one hand you need eye protection, but on the other hand they are so high res that you can get a phenomenal close-up of the edges and corners.