Could be the first 1955 Mascot Dog Food Cards of Mantle and Berra. Any Info?

[sago]

Search for ads for mascot dog food in Philadelphia an Jersey newspapers from that era. There is a newspaper archive site you can start with.

[JLange]

Searched on GenealogyBank in PA and NJ for ads from 1952-56 and didn't get any hits at all using the search "mascot dog food." I expanded my search for the whole country, and got this tantalizing piece of info (photo) which came from the April 27, 1954 Evening Star out of Washington, D.C. in "The Baseball Beat" column by Burton Hawkins.

The text reads,
"Bucky Harris is a business associate of Al Rosen, Ed Mathews, Robin Roberts, Yogi Berra, Ed Lopat, Monte Irvin and Specs Toporcer. Their pictures appear on cans of Mascot dog food and they get a slice of the sales."

That's it! Sure would be great if those guys were on the remaining cards in the set!

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by JLange

Searched on GenealogyBank in PA and NJ for ads from 1952-56 and didn't get any hits at all using the search "mascot dog food." I expanded my search for the whole country, and got this tantalizing piece of info (photo) which came from the April 27, 1954 Evening Star out of Washington, D.C. in "The Baseball Beat" column by Burton Hawkins.

The text reads,
"Bucky Harris is a business associate of Al Rosen, Ed Mathews, Robin Roberts, Yogi Berra, Ed Lopat, Monte Irvin and Specs Toporcer. Their pictures appear on cans of Mascot dog food and they get a slice of the sales."

That's it! Sure would be great if those guys were on the remaining cards in the set!

Cool find, I would love to have one of the Ed Mathews ones in my collection.

[ValKehl]

Jason, Bucky Harris was the manager of the Washington Senators in 1954. This was the last year of his third managerial go-round with the Senators, as follows:
1924-1928 (as player manager, he won the W.S. in his first year)
1935-1942
1950-1954

[chuckw]

Originally Posted by JLange

Searched on GenealogyBank in PA and NJ for ads from 1952-56 and didn't get any hits at all using the search "mascot dog food." I expanded my search for the whole country, and got this tantalizing piece of info (photo) which came from the April 27, 1954 Evening Star out of Washington, D.C. in "The Baseball Beat" column by Burton Hawkins.

The text reads,
"Bucky Harris is a business associate of Al Rosen, Ed Mathews, Robin Roberts, Yogi Berra, Ed Lopat, Monte Irvin and Specs Toporcer. Their pictures appear on cans of Mascot dog food and they get a slice of the sales."

That's it! Sure would be great if those guys were on the remaining cards in the set!

- Cool find Jason! Thanks for the help!!!!

[Exhibitman]

If there is an Al Rosen card I want it.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by JLange

Searched on GenealogyBank in PA and NJ for ads from 1952-56 and didn't get any hits at all using the search "mascot dog food." I expanded my search for the whole country, and got this tantalizing piece of info (photo) which came from the April 27, 1954 Evening Star out of Washington, D.C. in "The Baseball Beat" column by Burton Hawkins.

The text reads,
"Bucky Harris is a business associate of Al Rosen, Ed Mathews, Robin Roberts, Yogi Berra, Ed Lopat, Monte Irvin and Specs Toporcer. Their pictures appear on cans of Mascot dog food and they get a slice of the sales."

That's it! Sure would be great if those guys were on the remaining cards in the set!

Wow! Great research Jason! I didn't think newspapers could be searched so easily. That pretty much puts the issue date as no earlier than 1954. However, I wonder why Mantle wasn't mentioned in the article. Could it be that more were issued in 1955? Or was Mantle included in the 1954 issue but was added after the article made it to print? Since the backs of some cards mention 8 cards in the set and others mention 11 cards in the set, does that mean it's more likely the Mantle is part of an 11 card set issued in 1955 versus an 8 card set issued in 1954?

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

Since the backs of some cards mention 8 cards in the set and others mention 11 cards in the set, does that mean it's more likely the Mantle is part of an 11 card set issued in 1955 versus an 8 card set issued in 1954?

This would be my assessment. Mantle was one of the three additional players added.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

If there is an Al Rosen card I want it.

Don't ya hate it when you find something that you need which you previously didn't know existed? As a type or player collector it sucks

[Exhibitman]

Yes and no; gives me something to shoot for. I've been looking for a National Tea Rosen label for many years. Gonna be that much more fun when I find one.

[pawpawdiv9]

Interesting to see where this goes????

[chuckw]

For the Mantle Mascot Dog Food Card (starting at $5 with no reserve):
http://www.wheatlandauctionservices....ventoryid=9607


For the Berra Mascot Dog Food Card (starting at $5 with no reserve):
http://www.wheatlandauctionservices....ventoryid=9608

A very cool 1969-1970 Topps Basketball Proof uncut sheet:
http://www.wheatlandauctionservices....ventoryid=9588

Any guesses on what you think the Mantle will sell for????????

[doug.goodman]

The auction says only Mantle that exists. Hasn't Larry confirmed that there is another?

Doug

[chuckw]

The auction listing indicates it's the first to the market. The three grading companies have never graded any other Mascot card and only the Roberts has been catalogued previously. Someone may claim to own another, but they have never shown any proof, even after they were asked. So maybe, but I doubt it until someone shows proof or gets it graded/catalogued. If any proof is shown, then we know that two are known to exist which is still very cool. It's still the first time that we've seen one come to market via auction house or eBay unless I missed something.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

I can't believe no one on this board (so far) has even heard of this issue.

I'm amazed at that also! A Mantle issue no one was aware of?



.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Nobody has ever shown proof of another. Basically there are only 3 known examples from this set, though the backs claim there are 11 subjects I believe, and two of them are up for sale in this auction. That's a coup no matter how you slice it. Best of luck with this sale Chuck, just glad I got to see them in person before they disappear into the bowels of some amazing collection!

[pawpawdiv9]

Amazing! This guy has one.

[bocca001]

Funny, but not quite as good as the one with him and the Mona Lisa. That was a great thread.

[doug.goodman]

Thank you Wheatland for changing the title from "only one" to "first to market".

Doug

[RedsFan1941]

totally understand why you might choose not to answer, but was there a main reason you chose this auction house?

[Cozumeleno]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

Amazing! This guy has one.

/SlowClap

[brian1961]

I find it surprising that BECKETT was chosen to grade the piece. Unless of course PSA and SGC politely deferred, or simply refused, and passed the shoe. Nothing against Beckett, they're strict graders.

After the lengthy NET54 thread, things looked promising. Then, a Net54 gent uncovered original research in the form of an original ad and uploaded it for us all. The ad's effect was mighty, in that there was no mention of Mickey Mantle as one of the players included.

I was hoping someone with terrier tenacity would dig up a giant dog bone of another ad, this time with a mention of Mickey Mantle. By all means, Mascot would trumpet the name of Mickey Mantle if he was included. Then again, for 1954-55, the Bowman Gum Company had an exclusive with The Commerce Comet. However, that exclusive translated to only nationwide gum issues, not to a promotion involving a very limited regional distribution area, such as Stahl-Meyer Franks in Metropolitan New York (1953--55), or Dan-Dee Potato Chips in Ohio and eastern Pennsylvania (1954), and finally Briggs in Washington, DC area (1954).

Was there any further news on this that I and some of the other lads might be unaware of? Please advise.

Many thanks. ----Brian Powell


PS-----This is a case where we really needed the expertise of Mr. Bob Lemke, who sadly passed away in early January of 2017. This was just the sort of mystery that he loved to solve, and he would welcome the assistance of others.

[chuckw]

I think I mentioned previously that PSA indicated that they only grade cards that have a known checklist. They told me that I could do further research on the cards for them, but honestly I have a full time job in the engineering consulting world and wouldn't know how to do the research they needed. SGC was helpful and said they would be glad to look at the cards and do the research needed to figure out if they can grade them. Beckett said the same thing. I use Beckett a lot for grading and personally have a lot of respect for them and chose to send the Mantle and Berra to them (in this industry I try to associate and do business with people who are good people). Their vintage guys have been very nice and helpful in the past. I agree it would be awesome to find out more about these cards and Mascot Dog Food in general. The board on Net54 has been great (and Leon!) to try to help, and some good people in the industry have reached out to many regional and vintage experts, with many people having heard of the product (I think mainly due to the Robin Roberts that was know to exist and the mystery behind what other cards may have been out there). Finding out more information on Mascot Dog Food Company or this regional set would be great, and any suggestions would be much appreciated. Wheatland Auction Services was a very easy choice since it's owned by my wife! They have a strong pool of awesome buyers/collectors and I figured it would be best to get it in the hands of the right owner sooner, rather than later. Plus it's been fun finding such unique cards and many good vintage collectors are very excited about the cards. I hate talking about the Mantle so much, because the Berra is also very cool!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

Amazing! This guy has one.

He seems to have a lot of nice cards just not a very organized room.

Chuck- should be a great Wheatland ...https://www.wheatlandauctionservices.com. I have been following the auctions but, as I am mostly buying for resale, all of the lots seem to get to their potential. Just not a lot of meat left (which is good for consignors.)

[Leon]

Nice article in Forbes on the cards. Thanks David!!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidse.../#19d8df7f6460

.

[chuckw]

Great job to both Beckett and Forbes for doing some really nice stories. Both also gave credit to Net54 members for good research! Here is the Beckett story: https://www.beckett.com/news/1950s-m...y-mantle-card/

[Steve D]

I just found a mention of Bucky Harris having his picture on Mascot Dog Food labels, in the 24 Dec 1953 Orlando Sentinel. It doesn't mention any other players though.

There are also ads for Mascot Dog Food going back to Oct 1932 in the St Louis Post-Dispatch. The most recent ad I found is from the 5 Feb 1976 Los Angeles Times. These ads were for the dog food itself.

Steve

[chuckw]

The Mantle is up to $18,500 with 8 days left (ends Sunday January 28th):
http://www.wheatlandauctionservices....ventoryid=9607

The Berra is up to $1,200 with 8 days left:
http://www.wheatlandauctionservices....o-lot9608.aspx

Here's the story on Forbes:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidse.../#5c1f9c696460

Here's the story in Beckett:
https://www.beckett.com/news/1950s-m...y-mantle-card/

Here's the story in sports collector's daily:
https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...tion-1st-time/

Good Luck Bidding!

[chuckw]

The cards sell today (Sunday January 28 - ending this evening in a no-reserve auction)

The Mantle is up to $19,500:
http://www.wheatlandauctionservices....ventoryid=9607


The Berra is up to $1,400:
http://www.wheatlandauctionservices....ventoryid=9608


Here's the story on Forbes:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidse.../#79beaed36460

Here's the story in Beckett:
https://www.beckett.com/news/1950s-m...y-mantle-card/

Here's the story in sports collector's daily:
https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...-bvg-1-5-a_lg/

Good Luck Bidding!

[murphy8276]

What was the final hammer on these?

[seablaster]

The Mantle ended at $20K plus the juice.

[baseball tourist]

Originally Posted by murphy8276

What was the final hammer on these?

Appears to be $20k for the Mantle and $4k for the Yogi, but I am not sure if that includes the juice?

[vwtdi]

http://lancasteronline.com/news/loca...831eeaec5.html

[BeanTown]

Could these cards be too rare for their own good? Rumorville has it that PSA and SGC refused to grade them. This left Old Faithful in Beckett to slab them. Makes me wonder just how much money the Mantle would have fetched if in a PSA holder? It wouldnt surprise me with "new" ownership that these cards find their way into a PSA holder. Then the question would be, who convinced PSA to magically change their mind?

I know of another story that involves a single signed Lou Gehrig ball and PSA refused to grade it. After the ball was won for a song at a smaller AH, PSA had a change of heart and graded it. Then the ball magically showed up in a bigger auction and did really good. Im pretty sure their are other stories like this out there.

[jason.1969]

Am not a Mantle collector at all, but this price strikes me as a steal. Whether it's the move to PSA described above or something else, I would not be shocked at all to see this card at $100K in no time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

[Leon]

I don't know who did or didn't look at it, specifically.
Unfortunately Beckett doesn't do a great job of marketing their vintage expertise, especially Beckett Vintage Grading (BVG). That helps keep prices down of cards in their holders. They did the legwork on this one and should be commended for it. The card is real and I think it's kind of crazy to have an expert look at it and not grade/authenticate it because it's not cataloged. It's a real card. The new owners might have a hard time getting it slabbed by another TPG for a while. That is just a hunch...But I have seen the card and there is no doubt it's a real card, for pete's sake....And unless it's a registry type card I am not sure it goes a lot higher in another holder....but I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Could these cards be too rare for their own good? Rumorville has it that PSA and SGC refused to grade them. This left Old Faithful in Beckett to slab them. Makes me wonder just how much money the Mantle would have fetched if in a PSA holder? It wouldnt surprise me with "new" ownership that these cards find their way into a PSA holder. Then the question would be, who convinced PSA to magically change their mind?

I know of another story that involves a single signed Lou Gehrig ball and PSA refused to grade it. After the ball was won for a song at a smaller AH, PSA had a change of heart and graded it. Then the ball magically showed up in a bigger auction and did really good. Im pretty sure their are other stories like this out there.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

It wouldnt surprise me with "new" ownership that these cards find their way into a PSA holder.

I agree. I think it'll resurface in the next 5 years in a PSA slab and go for north of $50k.

[murphy8276]

I think this went very cheap also. I truly thought we would see 50-75k and potentially more. If I had the money maybe that top bidder and I would have went at it, who knows. The good news is, I cannot imagine with that much meat left on the bone that this will stay in a collection for long.

[CW]

If MattyC won it, then it might be tucked away for awhile.

I think the price was fairly accurate. While it is Mantle, one thing that always seems to keep the values down on a card, even on super rare cards, is the popularity of the set. This set is so obscure that nobody collects it, which keeps the value down to a measly $23,600.

[Bestdj777]

I thought it brought what it is worth. There are a handful of rare Mantle cards. If you can't get them into PSA holders they just aren't worth that much. If it was in a PSA holder, maybe it would have brought more.

The last one of one I bought was for about $1000 in cash/trade. Granted it was pretty ugly and now another surfaced, but I was hesitant at that price. This is more aesthetically pleasing and a bit earlier. With the expert marketing, I think it brought the max of what it was worth not in a PSA holder.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I agree with Chuck and Chris. I don't think it's some mega card waiting to happen, I thought it brought a very healthy price for what it is.

[orly57]

I respectfully disagree Peter. If that card were in a PSA holder, the registry guys would fight for it. Remember it only takes two. I personally know a guy at the top (let's say top 3) of the mantle registry who spends insane money on minor grade bumps. These guys take their registry seriously. A card like that would carry some serious weight (difficulty points or whatever the hell they call it) and could change rankings on the registry, which is EXTREMELY important to them. I can tell you that this guy I know wasn't very hot and heavy over it since psa didn't grade it. First was his concern about authenticity and the other is the fact he gets no points for it.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I was lucky enough to see these in person at Chuck's shop yesterday and I can say they are really freaking cool. I don't get excited about cards very often anymore but these are exciting cards.

A big +1 there! Great find.

Sincerely,

Larry

[CW]

I would have to agree that the card would've sold for more in a PSA holder, despite being the exact same card. How much more may be debatable and involve speculation.

Here's a question, err questions: if this card was graded by PSA, would it even be added to the Mickey Mantle master set registry? I ask because I just checked the master set checklist and I did not see the ultra rare 1961 Topps Dice Game Mantle on the master or "super" set checklists. Isn't that what matters, that the card becomes part of the player set registry? Does being graded by PSA automatically get it added to the Mantle player set registry? I ask these questions because I really don't know.

Also, there's a reason why PSA did not encaspsulate this card. Could their understanding of this set change in the future, thereby allowing them to grade the card? Sure. But this is just speculation. It may never get into a PSA holder, and if it did it would have to be added to the Mantle player set registry to garner the bigger bucks (or am I wrong about this?).

There is no denying that the registry is a powerful drug.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by orly57

A card like that would carry some serious weight (difficulty points or whatever the hell they call it) and could change rankings on the registry, which is EXTREMELY important to them.

Admittedly, I am not an expert on the PSA registry. But I do take a look sometimes. For individual player registries, aren't the iconic/mainstream/rookie cards weighted far more than obscure cards? That is what it seems like to me when I look at the registries.

[orly57]

While the 52 mantle gets 10 points and the 51 bowman gets 9, you will note that some of the tougher cards like the Briggs Meat (9), all 3 stahl Meyer (8), home run Derby (7) Yoo-hoo (8), Tip-Top (8), the Venezuela cards, etc are weighted extremely high. Compare that, for example, to the iconic 56 Topps which is weighted at a 4. I suspect they weigh the importance of the card as well as rarity.
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...position/13018

Chuck asks a great question. No, I do not believe that the card is added to the registry by mere virtue of having have been graded by PSA. However, PSA does welcome suggestions regarding which cards should be added on to these master sets. If you can get it into a psa holder, you then need to argue your case I guess.

[Bestdj777]

If PSA graded this, it would inevitably be included, but maybe just in the red category. It differs from the Dice Game in that it was actually issued, which I believe is why PSA ultimately left the Dice Game off. As for what goes in the red or black, I still can't detect a reason for some of the decisions (the Test Discs make sense for the same reason the Dice Game isn't included, but others less so). I believe I was copied on an email a while back where they explained that the points assigned are based on the value of the item/issue.

[CW]

Interesting. Thanks, Chris and Orlando.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

If PSA graded this, it would inevitably be included, but maybe just in the red category. It differs from the Dice Game in that it was actually issued, which I believe is why PSA ultimately left the Dice Game off. As for what goes in the red or black, I still can't detect a reason for some of the decisions (the Test Discs make sense for the same reason the Dice Game isn't included, but others less so). I believe I was copied on an email a while back where they explained that the points assigned are based on the value of the item/issue.

So this would be his top card then, no? $23,600 (which most think is artificially low because of the slab) is twice what you'd get for a '52 Topps Mantle in the same condition.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

So this would be his top card then, no? $23,600 (which most think is artificially low because of the slab) is twice what you'd get for a '52 Topps Mantle in the same condition.

Not necessarily. For an issue like this, I doubt the condition played much of a role at all in the price. So, while a 1.5 brought $23,000, it's unlikely that a 5.5 or a 10 would have brought that much more. Whoever bought this bought it because they believe it's their only shot at owning one. Meanwhile, a 1952 Topps on a 5.5 or 10 is worth substantially more than the $15000 or whatever a 1.5 brings these days, with a ten likely being a seven figure card. So, with their metric, the 52 Topps and, potentially a handful of other cards, would still outrank this one, not to downplay the aesthetics or significance of this card--it's a beautiful piece and one I would have loved to get.