Morris & Trammell Elected to HOF

[orly57]

Regardless of where you stand on steroid-era guys getting into the Hall, I think we can agree that with no Bonds, no Pete Rose, no Joe Jackson, and no Roger Clemens, the HOF has lost its luster. Nothing against these new inductees, but they aren't in the same stratosphere as many guys who aren't in Cooperstown and probably never will be.

[insidethewrapper]

Congratulations to both Morris and Trammell, the 1978 Topps Set just went up in value. The Molitor/Trammell HOF Rookie Card. That doesn't happen often !

If Phil Rizzuto is in, then most should be in the HOF. If only the Ruth's and Cobb's were in, the Hall would be very empty. Still only a few hundred of the almost 20,000 players (1-2%) of all players. I don't think it is watered down yet.

[calvindog]

Steve Garvey was an All-Star eight years in a row and during that period finished in the top six in the MVP vote five times. He was a dominant player of his era. I don't see how Morris gets in and he doesn't.

[billyb]

Personally, I am thrilled about Trammell making it into the hall of fame. Yes his offensive stats are questionable. I got the pleasure of watching Trammell play during his entire career and to appreciate him not just as a player, but as a person. A leader on the 1984 team, as he was named team captain over strong personalities like Gibson and Parrish. But he kept his entire career unsullied of any kind. Just his defensive achievements, along with Lou Whitaker, as the longest double play combination in the history of the game. They completed more double plays then any other combination in the game. And both averaged over 280 for their career.
If you look at the players that support Trammell, that says more then anything else. He was well respected through the league. Hats off to Alan Trammell. You can match numbers to Trammell all you want, but you can't match many players to his professionalism.

Morris, I cannot agree more with all of you.

[btcarfagno]

Trammell deserves to be in the Hall. Jack Morris is pretty much a joke.

Tom C

[btcarfagno]

Great Fangraphs post here. He also did posts on the pitchers and the other candidates. Love how he mentions some of my cause celebre guys like Grich and Dwight Evans as well as some I feel need to get a longer look like Nettles and Reggie Smith and Darrell Evans.

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mode...-lou-whitaker/

Tom C

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Great Fangraphs post here. He also did posts on the pitchers and the other candidates. Love how he mentions some of my cause celebre guys like Grich and Dwight Evans as well as some I feel need to get a longer look like Nettles and Reggie Smith and Darrell Evans.

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mode...-lou-whitaker/

Tom C

Has Reggie Smith ever received a single vote? I'm sorry but I think if we're mentioning Reggie Smith and the HOF in the same breath we've reached the point of absurdity, not that we haven't already.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Steve Garvey was an All-Star eight years in a row and during that period finished in the top six in the MVP vote five times. He was a dominant player of his era. I don't see how Morris gets in and he doesn't.

It certainly opens it up for Garvey, Murphy and Mattingly from this group to be elected over the next few ballots by this committee. Simmons looks like a lock for the next ballot.

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Steve Garvey was an All-Star eight years in a row and during that period finished in the top six in the MVP vote five times. He was a dominant player of his era. I don't see how Morris gets in and he doesn't.

During the time that I started watching baseball 1978/1979, there was no bigger star than Steve Garvey. Popeye arms, playing in LA, married to Cindy - you could not tell the story of baseball in the '70's without him. He went to San Diego and didn't have the longevity of others. However, I am convinced that if he stayed in Los Angeles with similar numbers - and maybe a couple of bad end of the career years to add to the counting stats, he walks in.

In my mind, similar with Parker. Along with George Foster, Rod Carew, George Brett and Garvey, they were the biggest stars. I measure this by the baseball books that I would buy at book fairs in elementary school that would tell the stories of the players of the day. He had his mid-80's resurgence with the Reds as well.

I don't begrudge Trammel and Morris - and the '91 WS game 7 is forever etched in my brain - but when I think about that era and the true stars - I think of Garvey and Parker.

[soxinseven]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

During the time that I started watching baseball 1978/1979, there was no bigger star than Steve Garvey. Popeye arms, playing in LA, married to Cindy - you could not tell the story of baseball in the '70's without him. He went to San Diego and didn't have the longevity of others. However, I am convinced that if he stayed in Los Angeles with similar numbers - and maybe a couple of bad end of the career years to add to the counting stats, he walks in.

In my mind, similar with Parker. Along with George Foster, Rod Carew, George Brett and Garvey, they were the biggest stars. I measure this by the baseball books that I would buy at book fairs in elementary school that would tell the stories of the players of the day. He had his mid-80's resurgence with the Reds as well.

I don't begrudge Trammel and Morris - and the '91 WS game 7 is forever etched in my brain - but when I think about that era and the true stars - I think of Garvey and Parker.

Add Jim Rice to that list and those were my thoughts exactly. I still have some of those same books from my younger years. Good post...

[ccre]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Steve Garvey was an All-Star eight years in a row and during that period finished in the top six in the MVP vote five times. He was a dominant player of his era. I don't see how Morris gets in and he doesn't.

I agree 100%.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Mattingly's career numbers are pretty similar to Puckett's in a lot of respects. If you look at Baseball Reference for Puckett, they have Mattingly as the most similar batter, in fact.

[Peter_Spaeth]

In my opinion Tiant was clearly a better pitcher in his day than Morris was in his. Again, not that it's gospel, but by JAWS Tiant is 100+ places ahead of Morris in the all-time rankings, 51 and 164.

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In my opinion Tiant was clearly a better pitcher in his day than Morris was in his. Again, not that it's gospel, but by JAWS Tiant is 100+ places ahead of Morris in the all-time rankings, 51 and 164.

+100. Not sure why he doesn't gain more traction in these votes.

[sreader3]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Congratulations to both Morris and Trammell, the 1978 Topps Set just went up in value. The Molitor/Trammell HOF Rookie Card. That doesn't happen often !

Yeah -- I thought about this too. Is there any other Topps multi-player rookie card with two Hall of Famers? If there is I'm drawing a blank . . . .

[Mark]

Back in the day, Trammell was considered an elite player. A shortstop with an MVP and a 70 WAR is a pretty good candidate to get in, in my opinion.

[Jenx34]

I must be stupid here because I don't see how in the hell Ted Simmons belongs nor has a resume than Don Mattingly. The ONLY argument for Simmons is longevity. Basically Simmons stats give him about a 3 year advantage over Mattingly, yet it took him 7 more years to get there.

Mattingly had 9 Gold Gloves, 3 Silver Sluggers, an MVP, a batting title, 2 other top 5 MVP finishes... What Mattingly didn't have was longevity due to a back injury. And he didn't have a World Series Title.

Simmons was a very good catcher. Give him a bump because catcher production isn't typically as high as a 1B.

One can argue whether Mattingly belongs, but those that watched him regularly, know well his value was far greater than the stats showed. His defense was as good as it gets for any 1B ever. But I can't fathom an argument where Ted Simmons is closer to a HOFer than Mattingly.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Jenx34

I must be stupid here because I don't see how in the hell Ted Simmons belongs nor has a resume than Don Mattingly. The ONLY argument for Simmons is longevity. Basically Simmons stats give him about a 3 year advantage over Mattingly, yet it took him 7 more years to get there.

Mattingly had 9 Gold Gloves, 3 Silver Sluggers, an MVP, a batting title, 2 other top 5 MVP finishes... What Mattingly didn't have was longevity due to a back injury. And he didn't have a World Series Title.

Simmons was a very good catcher. Give him a bump because catcher production isn't typically as high as a 1B.

One can argue whether Mattingly belongs, but those that watched him regularly, know well his value was far greater than the stats showed. His defense was as good as it gets for any 1B ever. But I can't fathom an argument where Ted Simmons is closer to a HOFer than Mattingly.

Gotta think when comparing players that are not in, you have to be at same position... Comparing Mattingly to Simmons, can't do it... Compare Mattingly to Garvey who gets in?

[packs]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Gotta think when comparing players that are not in, you have to be at same position... Comparing Mattingly to Simmons, can't do it... Compare Mattingly to Garvey who gets in?

Mattingly gets my vote. Garvey got to play his whole career and he just didn't have it. Mattingly had his career taken from him by an injury. Anyone who ever saw Mattingly play in his prime knew what he was and can only wonder what would have been. There's no mystery with Garvey.

[pclpads]

Based on today's vote, guess there is still hope for Darryl Spencer and Ray Sadecki. LOL! The only way either new electee should get into the HOF is if they buy a ticket. Pity there is no HOF for the "very good." Both would make that hall.

[glynparson]

So tired of the flawed Hall Of Good argument. It isn't called the hall of great but the Hall of Fame. These were two of the more famous players of their era and both deserve their place in Cooperstown. This is a museum to tell the games history and celebrate its more accomplished players. These were two of the better players of their era and certainly both were very famous. Growing up I always thought of both as future hall of famers. Now i just need a few more greats from my youth to get in. For the record I would have absolutely loved it for Garvey and Parker to have gotten in, but like i said on another thread I honestly would not have minded if every single one of them had made it into the hall.

Also my late grandfather, Roy Tobias, was a huge fan of the Detroit Tigers. I am sure he is smiling down today very happy with these decisions.

[btcarfagno]

The argument for Ted Simmons? Pick any way you possibly want to look at it. Career stats. WAR. JAWS. Anything. Simmons is one of the top 13 (arguably top ten) catchers in the history of the game. Wouldn't you say that that is deserving on enshrinement?

Morris is pretty much the same pitcher as David Wells. Come on now. Hall Of Fame? I can name 40 or 50 pitchers who belong in the Hall before Jack Morris.

Garvey was a first baseman with ok power who had to hit .300 to have value because otherwise he would never have been on base. Will Clark deserves to be there before Garvey.

Reggie Smith? Not saying he belongs. But go check his stats again and get back to me. Much better player than Steve Garvey.

Tom C

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by orly57

Regardless of where you stand on steroid-era guys getting into the Hall, I think we can agree that with no Bonds, no Pete Rose, no Joe Jackson, and no Roger Clemens, the HOF has lost its luster. Nothing against these new inductees, but they aren't in the same stratosphere as many guys who aren't in Cooperstown and probably never will be.

Bonds and Clemens are slowly trending up as older voters fall off and new ones come on. They are getting in. I'd say 2 more years. Rose has been his own worst enemy in all of this but I'd like to see both those guys in as well.