Closing Tonight: Love of the Game Auctions

[Al C.risafulli]

Hi everyone:

First, thank you all for participating in our Fifth Anniversary auction. As always, I'm incredibly thankful for all the support that my company receives from this community. It's not lost on me that five years ago, I was terrified that our first auction would close without ANY extended bidding, and today we're talking about how it goes on for too long!

Second, there are a lot of great opinions in this thread from a lot of people I respect, and one thing is for sure - we can have this conversation from now until the end of time. Trust me, I've had this discussion many times, and I recognize that there are a variety of methods to close auctions, and none are perfect. To that end, I'm going to try and make this response short and sweet, because I, too, am still recovering from the 6AM closing time!

I agree with everyone who says that 6AM is way too late (early) for an auction to close. My last auction closed at 6AM, which I attributed to the large number of lots. This time around, one reason why I deliberately kept the lot count at about half what is usually is was to determine whether a lower number of lots would result in an earlier close. Clearly, that didn't happen.

For those who are wondering, please believe me that I regularly analyze how each LOTG auction closes, and whether or not it would make sense to adopt a new method of ending things. In the Fifth Anniversary auction, fewer than 1% of the items in the auction received bids after 3AM. But in the case of those items, bidding was spirited well into the wee hours. A hard close would have severely hurt the consignors of those pieces. Tens of thousands of dollars were bid on those items in late bidding. Shutting them down before bidding was truly over would have done those consignors a serious disservice.

The only things I'm sure of are that A) there are lots of different opinions on the best way to close auctions, and B) whatever the best way is, it hasn't been invented yet. I do pledge to you all that we'll continue to work to find a solution that works for as many people as possible.

It's very important to me to address an idea raised earlier in this thread that might inadvertently conflate auction closing time with trusting the integrity of the auction. Please do not confuse the two. My pledge continues: if you are bidding in my auction, you can trust that you are bidding with an auction that does not shill, does not permit consignors to bid on their own material, does not have hidden reserves, does not have a house bidding account, and does not place bids in the auction. As collectors, you may have varying opinions on the closing method we use (or any new closing method we may use in the future), but it should not shake your trust in the integrity of my company.

I'll be taking a hard look - as I always do - at ways to make LOTG more bidder-friendly. For now, you can trust that the "max bid" feature is safe from auction house shilling, you can sign up to receive outbid messages by text, and you can place your bids right from your cellphone on our mobile-friendly website.

Since the weekend, I've already had numerous discussions about ways we might change the closing method for our November auction. I'll bow out of this thread now, so it doesn't degenerate into a host of back-and-forth about various closing methods - I just wanted to make sure everyone understands that I'm constantly evaluating ways to improve the company, including its closing methods, and when I find something that makes sense, you can bet I'll adopt it.

Thanks again,
-Al

[Snapolit1]

Thanks Al. I wanted to comment on the Max Bid feature, as I am the one who brought it up above in the comments. You are at the top of the list of AHs I have no qualms using it. In fact I used it liberally for the last auction. However, I do wish auctions didn't end in the wee hours and where I could just stay up and bid like I do on eBay and elsewhere and not have to put in an automatic bid just in case some due on the West Coast want to try to steal one while I'm asleep.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I was a critic of the closing time on this thread but I certainly have no issue or doubt at all with the integrity of the AH or its owner. That said, it's hard for me to believe that REA, Heritage and a number of others have moved away from this all nighter crap but LOTG can't. Respectfully, what's so unique about it?

[JeremyW]

Whether I agree or not, it's refreshing to see an auction house respond, here on Net54, to the concerns of their customers. Appreciate it.

[Mdmtx]

I hate the late night closings. I believe it is counter productive for all involved. I actually believe the prices would be higher if items closed when the masses were awake. If everyone is awake, they are much more likely to bid on alternate items or make a decision to pay more. Seems as though there is very failed logic that the best time to close an auction is when 90% (percentage is a wild guess) of the continent where the items are most traded is asleep. Maybe I'm just dense, but I would think any business mentor would read this business plan and ask one question:

Why are you alienating your customer base?

Mark Medlin

[botn]

I must have missed or glossed over any posts that suggested that Al was not operating with complete integrity. I would be interested to know how Al knows that the spirited bidding that took place in the wee hours of the AM would have cost his consignors had he picked a different closing method?

If those bidding spirited bidders were faced with a absolute closing and they knew they had one shot to be the top bid, one would think they would toss max bids in there in the closing seconds. I think most bidders know what they are willing to go to well before the close of an auction and my guess is that number does not change often in the wee hours.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by botn

I must have missed or glossed over any posts that suggested that Al was not operating with complete integrity. I would be interested to know how Al knows that the spirited bidding that took place in the wee hours of the AM would have cost his consignors had he picked a different closing method?

If those bidding spirited bidders were faced with a absolute closing and they knew they had one shot to be the top bid, one would think they would toss max bids in there in the closing seconds. I think most bidders know what they are willing to go to well before the close of an auction and my guess is that number does not change often in the wee hours.

Agree with Greg and subsequent posts, Al is making unwarranted assumptions about what would or would not have happened in a different system. I doubt tens of thousands of dollars were the result of drunken exhaustion.

[brianp-beme]

Let me know if this hybrid ending option has been mentioned before or is in practice already...I'm not afraid to be knocked down from my creative lofty perch.

I like the overall concept of the REA auction setup, with initial bids needing to be in by noon EST (although I think this could be pushed back later to 2pm or 3pm, as folks in the PST zone need to be up and perkily bidding before 9am). The 15 (or 30 for smaller auctions) minutes rule for bids on any item in the auction following the initial bid period is also a good rule for those bidders who allocate funds. My main departure would be that at midnight all lots that haven't received a bid in the last 15 minutes would close (let's call it a semi-hard close), leaving behind only the lots that have high bidding interest, and these lots would INDIVIDUALLY close after no bids have been received in the past 15 minutes (starting with a fresh clock at midnight).

Seems like you could satisfy both camps (consignors and bidders) with this type of hybrid setup.

Feel free to poke holes into my idea...remember, I am a collector that tolerates pinholes, punch holes, and shotgun blast holes in my cards.

Brian

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by botn

I must have missed or glossed over any posts that suggested that Al was not operating with complete integrity. I would be interested to know how Al knows that the spirited bidding that took place in the wee hours of the AM would have cost his consignors had he picked a different closing method?

If those bidding spirited bidders were faced with a absolute closing and they knew they had one shot to be the top bid, one would think they would toss max bids in there in the closing seconds. I think most bidders know what they are willing to go to well before the close of an auction and my guess is that number does not change often in the wee hours.

+1

Exactly what I wanted to say, but Greg, Todd, and others beat me to it. Those heavy bids are placed in the wee hours because those heavy bidders aren't compelled to bid early. If they were told the auction would be closing at midnight, every last one of those bids would still be executed, only earlier.

And I too support Al and think he is doing an amazing job. When he started his business five years ago, he asked me about my experiences as an auctioneer, and I told him the single hardest thing to do is get good consignments. He has outdone anything I could have imagined for him. He is a champ!

[nolemmings]

In the Fifth Anniversary auction, fewer than 1% of the items in the auction received bids after 3AM. But in the case of those items, bidding was spirited well into the wee hours. A hard close would have severely hurt the consignors of those pieces. Tens of thousands of dollars were bid on those items in late bidding.

And if the bidding had ended at an earlier time--with these and all bidders told in advance of the earlier ending--you have concluded the "spirited bidding" involving tens of thousands of dollars would not have occurred?

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

And if the bidding had ended at an earlier time--with these and all bidders told in advance of the earlier ending--you have concluded the "spirited bidding" involving tens of thousands of dollars would not have occurred?

Agreed, they would have bid earlier.

Bidders are always going to try to bid as close to the end of an auction as possible, that's never going to change. The AH's are the ones that decide if this late bidding frenzy occurs at 1am or 6am based on when the bidders think/believe the auction will truly close.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Bicem

The AH's are the ones that decide if this late bidding frenzy occurs at 1am or 6am based on when the bidders think/believe the auction will truly close.

Agree 100%.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Thanks Al. I wanted to comment on the Max Bid feature, as I am the one who brought it up above in the comments. You are at the top of the list of AHs I have no qualms using it. In fact I used it liberally for the last auction. However, I do wish auctions didn't end in the wee hours and where I could just stay up and bid like I do on eBay and elsewhere and not have to put in an automatic bid just in case some due on the West Coast want to try to steal one while I'm asleep.

Hey Steve,

I wanted to point out that this auction closed at 6:30 am EST, which was 3:30 am PST. It wasn't really helpful to me on the west coast to have this closing time. It seems to me that the closing time helped the east coast more than the west. Of course, it would be next to impossible to predict that those on the east coast could go to bed, get up at 6:00 am, and continue bidding, but it isn't really a benefit to be on the west coast all the time either (like never having any big shows here). I happened to wake up at 2:30 to hit the head, and noticed that I had lost out on a bid in Memory Lane, which had closed, while I was asleep. It isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. Just an observation from the other side.

Ed

[Snapolit1]

Well taken Ed. One man's super late night is another's early morning.

Originally Posted by edjs

Hey Steve,

I wanted to point out that this auction closed at 6:30 am EST, which was 3:30 am PST. It wasn't really helpful to me on the west coast to have this closing time. It seems to me that the closing time helped the east coast more than the west. Of course, it would be next to impossible to predict that those on the east coast could go to bed, get up at 6:00 am, and continue bidding, but it isn't really a benefit to be on the west coast all the time either (like never having any big shows here). I happened to wake up at 2:30 to hit the head, and noticed that I had lost out on a bid in Memory Lane, which had closed, while I was asleep. It isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. Just an observation from the other side.

Ed