NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-17-2017, 06:07 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 35,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ugaskidawg View Post
I'm a bit curious about that as well. It doesn't seem like 7 material, but I don't get paid the big bucks to make those decisions.
It is as much as 7 as this is a 2. People need to get over the grade. It isn't in the top 100000000 of problem grades I have seen.

__________________
Leon Luckey
www.luckeycards.com
  #2  
Old 02-17-2017, 06:08 AM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
It is as much as 7 as this is a 2. People need to get over the grade. It isn't in the top 100000000 of problem grades I have seen.

Right people...cuz PSA is totally innocent here...leave them alone!
  #3  
Old 02-17-2017, 06:17 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,772
Default

Leaving aside whether it should have been graded at all, the grade is generous but not indefensible. There are lots of cards where the number grade is marginal but technically accurate.

Leon, what's your opinion on the disclosure issue, now that the facts have emerged?
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions.

My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-17-2017 at 06:21 AM.
  #4  
Old 02-17-2017, 06:24 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 35,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Leaving aside whether it should have been graded at all, the grade is generous but not indefensible. There are lots of cards where the number grade is marginal but technically accurate.

Leon, what's your opinion on the disclosure issue?
I would disclose things I have done to a card as I have before. I have never sent any card off to be cleaned or conserved. I routinely use water, Q tip and a Mars Plastic eraser. Those are my tools of trade and the only ones I find personally acceptable. That Dimaggio doesn't look out of place in a 7 holder to me. And if if there is nothing to detect, minus the shadow left, I don't know how any sane person can fault a grader for not seeing something that can't be seen. Such idiotic comments ....but then again, we are a microcosm of society. Not much better or worse....
__________________
Leon Luckey
www.luckeycards.com
  #5  
Old 02-17-2017, 06:28 AM
PhillipAbbott79 PhillipAbbott79 is offline
Phillip Abbott
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 414
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I would disclose things I have done to a card as I have before. I have never sent any card off to be cleaned or conserved. I routinely use water, Q tip and a Mars Plastic eraser. Those are my tools of trade and the only ones I find personally acceptable. That Dimaggio doesn't look out of place in a 7 holder to me. And if if there is nothing to detect, minus the shadow left, I don't know how any sane person can fault a grader for not seeing something that can't be seen. Such idiotic comments ....but then again, we are a microcosm of society. Not much better or worse....
What do you think about the images of the text messages from Brent to Cortney?
  #6  
Old 02-17-2017, 06:32 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,772
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I would disclose things I have done to a card as I have before. I have never sent any card off to be cleaned or conserved. I routinely use water, Q tip and a Mars Plastic eraser. Those are my tools of trade and the only ones I find personally acceptable. That Dimaggio doesn't look out of place in a 7 holder to me. And if if there is nothing to detect, minus the shadow left, I don't know how any sane person can fault a grader for not seeing something that can't be seen. Such idiotic comments ....but then again, we are a microcosm of society. Not much better or worse....
So you agree PWCC withheld a material fact, given his prior involvement with and knowledge of the card's history?
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions.

My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-17-2017 at 06:33 AM.
  #7  
Old 02-17-2017, 06:37 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 35,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
So you agree PWCC withheld a material fact, given his prior involvement with and knowledge of the card's history?
I am not being interrogated here. Please get that straight...same with the previous question from the other member. I said I would disclose things I have had done to a card.
__________________
Leon Luckey
www.luckeycards.com
  #8  
Old 02-17-2017, 06:49 AM
PhillipAbbott79 PhillipAbbott79 is offline
Phillip Abbott
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 414
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I am not being interrogated here. Please get that straight...same with the previous question from the other member. I said I would disclose things I have had done to a card.
If you are referring to me, I am not trying to interrogate you. I am merely looking for you opinion. Do you think that Brent has done something wrong? Whether it is the request to bid issue, or not disclosing information about the card.

Last edited by PhillipAbbott79; 02-17-2017 at 06:50 AM.
  #9  
Old 02-17-2017, 07:13 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,772
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I am not being interrogated here. Please get that straight...same with the previous question from the other member. I said I would disclose things I have had done to a card.
That seems unnecessarily defensive, Leon. I was simply asking your opinion, as I didn't think you had stated one, and after all you are the moderator and a leading hobby voice.
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions.

My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/
  #10  
Old 02-17-2017, 06:40 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
ja.ke liebe.rman
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/mysetregistry/set/348387
Posts: 5,792
Default

[QUOTE=Peter_Spaeth;1632041]So you agree PWCC withheld a material fact, given his prior involvement with and knowledge of the card's history?[/QUOTE

Leon appeared to say that the card doesnt look out of place in a PSA 7, and PSA was not totally in the wrong for grading the card a 7 So that would mean that someone bought a legit PSA 7. Thats far from scam behavior. Someone bought a PSA 7 and received a PSA 7 as far as the scam side. As far as integrity and civil issues aside, this does not look criminal/scam if some people share those views.

PWCC may of withheld a material fact as well as you keep saying, and other sellers would of disclosed things but that does not change what i said above. Others may disagree but my position is supported as well. The shilling and colluding is another issue.

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 02-17-2017 at 06:42 AM.
  #11  
Old 02-17-2017, 09:37 AM
botn botn is offline
Greg Schwartz
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,219
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
That Dimaggio doesn't look out of place in a 7 holder to me. And if if there is nothing to detect, minus the shadow left, I don't know how any sane person can fault a grader for not seeing something that can't be seen. Such idiotic comments ....but then again, we are a microcosm of society. Not much better or worse....
At the risk of your feeling interrogated I think you make a leap of faith when you conclude that there is nothing for PSA to detect. PSA misses stuff all the time, intentionally and not, so without your handling the card yourself after it was cleaned you cannot assume because it is in a holder now that there was nothing to detect.

As far as it being graded accurately, I am one who feels they missed the boat, at it should be in a 6. The remnants of the stain/toning are still there and should not be on a NM card. A card of that magnitude I would expect to have more than a cursory examination.
  #12  
Old 02-17-2017, 10:18 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
ja.ke liebe.rman
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/mysetregistry/set/348387
Posts: 5,792
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by botn View Post
At the risk of your feeling interrogated I think you make a leap of faith when you conclude that there is nothing for PSA to detect. PSA misses stuff all the time, intentionally and not, so without your handling the card yourself after it was cleaned you cannot assume because it is in a holder now that there was nothing to detect.

As far as it being graded accurately, I am one who feels they missed the boat, at it should be in a 6. The remnants of the stain/toning are still there and should not be on a NM card. A card of that magnitude I would expect to have more than a cursory examination.
I agree it should be a 6 but its in a gray area.


Peter: If you buy a card raw for 10 dollars at a yard sale and then 'restore' it..and send it in to PSA and get a grade of PSA 7 and now that card is worth $7000, i dont think anyone would say that sale of the card for $7000 wasnt fair or that the sale of the card was a SCAM.

Whats really the difference of buying a card in a SGC holder or a raw card in terms of then having the card restored and graded by PSA

You have to send in the raw card first to PSA and get an 'authentic' and then send it in again 'restored' and get a PSA 7 to now have to disclose the prior grade. The fact that the card got a grade before changes everything?

If the card earns a grade it earns a grade. To quote a football coach, you are what your record is....

You may not agree with what i said about a raw card earning a grade but you have to agree that i have never seen an auction in history talk about a card that was sent in to PSA after it was restored ever.

The only exceptions i can see is if the 'restoring' did something that could be reversed as the card sits in the holder where it would be obvious that in a unreasonable amount of time the card was waaaay overgraded. Like seeing a wrinkle after a year on a PSA 8 etc.

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 02-17-2017 at 10:20 AM.
  #13  
Old 02-17-2017, 10:23 AM
Rookiemonster's Avatar
Rookiemonster Rookiemonster is offline
Dustin
Dustin Mar.ino
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Nj
Posts: 1,451
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
I agree it should be a 6 but its in a gray area.


Peter: If you buy a card raw for 10 dollars at a yard sale and then 'restore' it..and send it in to PSA and get a grade of PSA 7 and now that card is worth $7000, i dont think anyone would say that sale of the card for $7000 wasnt fair or that the sale of the card was a SCAM.

Whats really the difference of buying a card in a SGC holder or a raw card in terms of then having the card restored and graded by PSA

You have to send in the raw card first to PSA and get an 'authentic' and then send it in again 'restored' and get a PSA 7 to now have to disclose the prior grade. The fact that the card got a grade before changes everything?

If the card earns a grade it earns a grade. To quote a football coach, you are what your record is....

You may not agree with what i said about a raw card earning a grade but you have to agree that i have never seen an auction in history talk about a card that was sent in to PSA after it was restored ever.

The only exceptions i can see is if the 'restoring' did something that could be reversed as the card sits in the holder where it would be obvious that in a unreasonable amount of time the card was waaaay overgraded. Like seeing a wrinkle after a year on a PSA 8 etc.
You mean like t206 mastro Wagner? Look where it got them but that only happens when you didn't do anything that wrong and psa was also innocent in that matter.
__________________
Just a collector that likes to talk and read about the Hobby. 🤓👍🏼
  #14  
Old 02-17-2017, 10:27 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,772
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
I agree it should be a 6 but its in a gray area.


Peter: If you buy a card raw for 10 dollars at a yard sale and then 'restore' it..and send it in to PSA and get a grade of PSA 7 and now that card is worth $7000, i dont think anyone would say that sale of the card for $7000 wasnt fair or that the sale of the card was a SCAM.

Whats really the difference of buying a card in a SGC holder or a raw card in terms of then having the card restored and graded by PSA

You have to send in the raw card first to PSA and get an 'authentic' and then send it in again 'restored' and get a PSA 7 to now have to disclose the prior grade. The fact that the card got a grade before changes everything?

If the card earns a grade it earns a grade. To quote a football coach, you are what your record is....

You may not agree with what i said about a raw card earning a grade but you have to agree that i have never seen an auction in history talk about a card that was sent in to PSA after it was restored ever.

The only exceptions i can see is if the 'restoring' did something that could be reversed as the card sits in the holder where it would be obvious that in a unreasonable amount of time the card was waaaay overgraded. Like seeing a wrinkle after a year on a PSA 8 etc.
Altering a raw card and getting it graded is the same thing. How is that not obvious? Your logic would say that if I trim a card and get it past PSA, that's fine too. "If a card earns a grade it earns a grade."

Carry on with the spin and defense. Apparently Brent and Betsy are not posting any more so they need good proxies.
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions.

My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-17-2017 at 10:28 AM.
  #15  
Old 02-17-2017, 10:35 AM
PhillipAbbott79 PhillipAbbott79 is offline
Phillip Abbott
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 414
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
You may not agree with what i said about a raw card earning a grade but you have to agree that i have never seen an auction in history talk about a card that was sent in to PSA after it was restored ever.
Here you go:

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...tored-example/

Now let the argument be that its a Wagner and the other card is not as if that matters.

Last edited by PhillipAbbott79; 02-17-2017 at 10:36 AM.
Closed Thread



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1936 Goudey Wide Pen R314 Joe DiMaggio Type 4 SGC 60 luxurywines 1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T 1 11-02-2014 03:38 PM
Does anyone here own a 1936 Joe Dimaggio World Wide Gum rookie? Zone91 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 18 09-23-2014 05:13 PM
1936 Goudey Wide Pen R314 Joe Dimaggio SGC 30 majordanby 1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T 1 01-11-2011 08:25 PM
1936 Goudey Wide Pen R314 Joe Dimaggio SGC 30 majordanby 1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T 1 12-17-2010 04:38 PM
DiMaggio Rookie - 107 1936 World Wide Gum Cards on eBay Archive Ebay, Auction and other Venues Announcement- B/S/T 2 06-05-2007 01:06 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:09 AM.


ebay GSB