Pwcc

[pokerplyr80]

I'm watching and bidding on more lots than I can ever remember in a pwcc auction. Lots of nice Mantles and some HOF RCS I've been looking for.

[ls7plus]

My two experiences with PWCC have been quite satisfactory, winning a '39 V351 Williams rookie and a '68-'70 Partridge Meats Bench for well under my maximum bids. Small sample size, I know, but just sayin.

Best regards to all,

Larry

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

My two experiences with PWCC have been quite satisfactory, winning a '39 V351 Williams rookie and a '68-'70 Partridge Meats Bench for well under my maximum bids. Small sample size, I know, but just sayin.

Best regards to all,

Larry

Thanks Larry, maybe you can PM Pete U. and share the news with him....

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Thanks Larry, maybe you can PM Pete U. and share the news with him....

no need to pm me...I can read. how much proof do you need, KEVIN...before you believe there are certain sellers that cheat! Just because they don't cheat all the time...doesn't take away the fact that THEY CHEAT!!!!

If you don't mind being cheated...then bid on their stuff.

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

...before you believe there are certain sellers that cheat!

think this is an unfair statement. doubt very seriously brent is cheating.

are there people who consign w/ pwcc and bid up their own product, sure. hard to stop that as it doesn't really take a rocket scientist to figure out how to do that.

but to insist that brent has something to do w/ it and w/ zero proof to back it up, i think is completely unfair.

now before you throw out the "turning a blind eye" argument, again...ya need proof. I've only asked him to check into 2 auctions that I was serious on and got back to me w/I an hour. you'd be surprised at the amount of people that only need a few items and would only use ebay for a small fraction to fill these holes, so their bid history of 50%+ seems suspicious.

retractions? different story, but I know he booted 2 folks last auction for the number of retractions they had.

without any evidence we can speculate all day long and on every topic.

not defending him, but unless there is absolute certainty or an ebay list surfaces similar to the maestro one, it's hard to call him a "cheat", imo.

flame on.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

think this is an unfair statement. doubt very seriously brent is cheating.

are there people who consign w/ pwcc and bid up their own product, sure. hard to stop that as it doesn't really take a rocket scientist to figure out how to do that.

but to insist that brent has something to do w/ it and w/ zero proof to back it up, i think is completely unfair.

now before you throw out the "turning a blind eye" argument, again...ya need proof. I've only asked him to check into 2 auctions that I was serious on and got back to me w/I an hour. you'd be surprised at the amount of people that only need a few items and would only use ebay for a small fraction to fill these holes, so their bid history of 50%+ seems suspicious.

retractions? different story, but I know he booted 2 folks last auction for the number of retractions they had.

without any evidence we can speculate all day long and on every topic.

not defending him, but unless there is absolute certainty or an ebay list surfaces similar to the maestro one, it's hard to call him a "cheat", imo.

flame on.

Pretty good job of defending him...without defending him

[ullmandds]

but you have a point...I misspoke. some sellers allow/do not make a very good effort to prevent cheating.

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Pretty good job of defending him...without defending him

i guess. just posting my factual experiences. the point stands true though, correct?

(and nothing consigned w/ him. and the two things that did peak my interest, no longer do as they have already surpassed my price point)

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

no need to pm me...I can read. how much proof do you need, KEVIN...before you believe there are certain sellers that cheat! Just because they don't cheat all the time...doesn't take away the fact that THEY CHEAT!!!!

If you don't mind being cheated...then bid on their stuff.

They have been cheating as long as there have been auctions, going back to when I first started getting involved in auctions. Shill bidding is the second oldest profession. It didn't take me long to distance from all auctions.

[Edwolf1963]

I like PWCC, have had good experiences but this is the stuff I have a hard time putting my mind around. I realize its hard to police all their auctions for shilling/fraud, but wouldn't something like this example (and there are several BTW) raise a number of red flags immediately? Same new/relatively low feedback bidder, running same grade card up well over VCP recent average or max, and 13 bid retractions within 6 mos! I've been on eBay for 15+ years and I've never had 1.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...4AAOSwBnVW-ANt

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

I like PWCC, have had good experiences but this is the stuff I have a hard time putting my mind around. I realize its hard to police all their auctions for shilling/fraud, but wouldn't something like this example (and there are several BTW) raise a number of red flags immediately? Same new/relatively low feedback bidder, running same grade card up well over VCP recent average or max, and 13 bid retractions within 6 mos! I've been on eBay for 15+ years and I've never had 1.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...4AAOSwBnVW-ANt

I also bid quite a bit with PWCC and have a lot of respect for them. This kind of stuff is lunacy. How is e-bay allowing this person to still have an account? Sure, PWCC should block them, but why isn't e-bay doing something about this. Probation? 3 month suspension? Black star next to their name?

I review most of my auctions on PWCC. 99.9% of them I am very happy with. If there is someone like this over-bidding me, then I would personally send them an e-mail. Brent's group has always been very responsive.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

no need to pm me...I can read. how much proof do you need, KEVIN...before you believe there are certain sellers that cheat! Just because they don't cheat all the time...doesn't take away the fact that THEY CHEAT!!!!

If you don't mind being cheated...then bid on their stuff.

I've won a couple of differnet cards off of them in the few years I've been collecting.

PSA 4 Doc Crandall cap with portrait
PSA 2 Joe Tinker batting

The prices on these were pretty good. However I often see plenty of cards they have for sale that are........... let's just say the opposite of good. And they're nothing special. I'm talking common commons going for well above what a sane person would pay.

I glanced at the recent listings and it appears as though there's NOTHING (in my price range) that I would consider a good deal. And there's still plenty of time for the prices to get crazier.

[bobbyw8469]

I glanced at the recent listings and it appears as though there's NOTHING (in my price range) that I would consider a good deal. And there's still plenty of time for the prices to get crazier.

Then you are looking at the wrong cards. I know for a FACT that there is a $500 card that is currently at $98. I'm sure there are others, but I am watching one in particular.

[Snapolit1]

My experiences with PWCC have generally been fine.

Reading all these posts I was intrigued enough to investigate the bidders who have now topped me on 4 pricey items in tonight's auction, including some Goudeys and Ruths.

The four sellers have bid on PWCC with 44%, 46%, 77% and 77% of their recent bids. And they each have many hundreds of feedbacks.

Am I accusing anyone of wrongdoing? No. Do these numbers strike me as a little peculiar? Yep they do. Are a lot of other quality sellers.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Then you are looking at the wrong cards. I know for a FACT that there is a $500 card that is currently at $98. I'm sure there are others, but I am watching one in particular.

See my thread on the Ed Killian that ended for an asinine $76 when it was miss-labeled. That's not a ridiculous price?

[sjim8660]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

My two experiences with PWCC have been quite satisfactory, winning a '39 V351 Williams rookie and a '68-'70 Partridge Meats Bench for well under my maximum bids. Small sample size, I know, but just sayin.

Best regards to all,

Larry

I have had some decent experiences with PWCC also, I think the guy that runs it is legit but the people the consign are the ones who run the auctions up.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by sjim8660

I have had some decent experiences with PWCC also, I think the guy that runs it is legit but the people the consign are the ones who run the auctions up.

As long as the consigners are assessed fees on the their own cards they 'won' thats fine...if they just get a do over then thats a problem to me..

[Leon]

Please help me understand why you don't understand this sentence written at the top of every page in bold letters?

If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post.

Originally Posted by sjim8660

I have had some decent experiences with PWCC also, I think the guy that runs it is legit but the people the consign are the ones who run the auctions up.

[sjim8660]

Originally Posted by Leon

Please help me understand why you don't understand this sentence written at the top of every page in bold letters?

If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post.

Jimmy Steele, I forgot, I am still fairly new to this forum, no need to get rude.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by sjim8660

Jimmy Steele, I forgot, I am still fairly new to this forum, no need to get rude.

I doubt Leon was being rude, just one of the few rules taken seriously here.

[Jeff1970Red]

All 3 are bid up to the same number by the same bidder IDs. Coincidental?

[ls7plus]

Just set a realistic maximum bid reflecting what you believe is the real value of the card (and if you are value-oriented, with consideration of the upside and downside potential for appreciation/depreciation), stick with that, and you won't get cheated. If you get it fine, if you don't, you haven't lost anything except a single opportunity to acquire a desired card (in most, though not all cases, there will be others forthcoming in the future). It really is that simple, unless you think you're entitled to a bargain well below what you believe is actual market value. If you're not successful in acquiring the cards you want that way, perhaps your appraisal of real market value is inaccurate.

Just MHO and self-imposed bidding restrictions,

Larry

[swarmee]

Brent has come on here in the past and said that he will block suspicious bidders if you notify him via eBay's message function on those auctions. He says that sellers cannot see bidder history info like we can, so copy/paste that into a message for him, and you may see those bids cancelled.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Jeff1970Red

All 3 are bid up to the same number by the same bidder IDs. Coincidental?

I have relatively low feedback, 150 or so on ebay, and a high percentage with pwcc if you look me up. I will occasionally place a bid on similar or identical cards that I know won't win just so the cards show up in my bidding feed. Easier to see on my phone. This kind of activity isn't always indicative of fraud or shill bidding even though it looks suspicious.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I have relatively low feedback, 150 or so on ebay, and a high percentage with pwcc if you look me up. I will occasionally place a bid on similar or identical cards that I know won't win just so the cards show up in my bidding feed. Easier to see on my phone. This kind of activity isn't always indicative of fraud or shill bidding even though it looks suspicious.

+1

Normally, I only bid (snipe) within the final 10 seconds of an auction I'm trying to actually win. This week however, I had to "shotgun" over 50 bids on PWCC cards, just to get them on my watch list, as I had run out of allotted space on my watch list.

Given the number of auctions PWCC runs each month, I suspect many other bidders have to do the same.

Steve

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I have relatively low feedback, 150 or so on ebay, and a high percentage with pwcc if you look me up. I will occasionally place a bid on similar or identical cards that I know won't win just so the cards show up in my bidding feed. Easier to see on my phone. This kind of activity isn't always indicative of fraud or shill bidding even though it looks suspicious.

+1

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Jeff1970Red

All 3 are bid up to the same number by the same bidder IDs. Coincidental?

I'm actually thinking this might be a bidding strategy by some folks. A while ago, I was bidding on two 1975 Topps complete sets being auctioned by PWCC. I sniped both of them, and ended up being the underbidder for both of them. I checked the bid history for both sets, and I saw that I lost to the same bidder for both of them. The very next day, I received a second chance offer for one of the sets. Of course, not wanting to have been possibly shilled up, I declined.

I have no proof or evidence or anything. However, in that case, I have the feeling that the same bidder who won both 1975 sets in my case decided he only wanted one of them, and picked the one he liked better. Then he basically became a nonpaying bidder on the other set.

So my feeling is that some bidders actually think this is okay: I'll put my max bids on all of these cards that I want even though they are the same. If I win multiple ones, I'll pick the one that I like most, and then either retract my bids on the auctions for the same card still ongoing or become nonpaying bidders on those cards I don't want. Again, I have no real evidence of this, but seeing this post reminded me of that past incident for me.

[ajquigs]

There's a bunch of low value cards in this auction that I have set up in Gavelsnipe.com. That is very unusual for me with PWCC.
I guess I have to hope no one is using Gavelshill.com on those cards.