the list (of criminals) is revealed

[1880nonsports]

to think the consignor was unaware of the shilling. Think that could only happen if the house had access to a maximum bid - which they apparently did - so I guess it's possible :-) Besides, I think husband of tammy copped to it.......

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

to think the consignor was unaware of the shilling. Think that could only happen if the house had access to a maximum bid - which they apparently did - so I guess it's possible :-) Besides, I think husband of tammy copped to it.......

I never said that JC didn't know...I simply stated that he wasn't the one doing the shilling. It's pretty clear that he was in the know based on the number of times his name is associated with Jay Dyer (now working for Huggins & Scott) and Shane Mooney (anyone know who that is?).

And I missed those old posts from husbandoftammy where he fessed up. I was off the Net54 site for a long stretch during that timeframe.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

I never said that JC didn't know...I simply stated that he wasn't the one doing the shilling. It's pretty clear that he was in the know based on the number of times his name is associated with Jay Dyer (now working for Huggins & Scott) and Shane Mooney (anyone know who that is?).

And I missed those old posts from husbandoftammy where he fessed up. I was off the Net54 site for a long stretch during that timeframe.

I believe they have testimony of Allen calling Clarke and asking if he wanted to "bump it" referring to upping the bid on one of his items. This came out a while back. I don't think Clarke has fessed up to it, but he never denied it when called on it a few times here in the recent past.

[midmo]

I ran across this article from 26 years ago while googling some of the names on the list...

http://articles.philly.com/1989-10-1...baseball-cards

One of the most revealing moments of the convention came at a seminar on ethics. In a convention that attracted 382 dealers and more than 37,000 collectors, eight people showed up to discuss moral issues.

"That pretty much tells you all you need to know about the ethics of this business," said dealer Stan Marks of Scottsdale, Ariz. "Nobody gives a damn."

[h2oya311]

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

I really see it as a conflict of interest for a grader to grade a card if that grader owns the same type of card and grade..

if POP is 1 on a card at a SGC 8 and carries a $1000+ price...I wouldn't want to see another of those cards achieve a SGC 8 for example which would double the POP and lower the value of my own card...

[Econteachert205]

I do not think it will effect clct collectors universe stock. It will not impact the core business of submissions or the registry. SGC is a different story. Anyone on the fence about which grader to use will move away from them. Maybe a small boost for beckett. The real losers will be the individual auctions involved and already mentioned.

[ezez420]

Na

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ezez420

Wow. This quote was when this happened to me on a Pop 2 card with me owning 1. I can only guess who owns/owned the 2nd. Wow you couldnt have said it better. A very high profile card for that matter besides.

so my comments have been useful to the net54 community I take it...yeah others like to say I rattle on....

[ullmandds]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezez420
Wow. This quote was when this happened to me on a Pop 2 card with me owning 1. I can only guess who owns/owned the 2nd. Wow you couldnt have said it better. A very high profile card for that matter besides.
so my comments have been useful to the net54 community I take it...yeah others like to say I rattle on....


well...atleast that 1 comment...to that 1 person!

[rsdill2]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

I don't know who he is but John Reznikoff is listed on SGC webpage under the "our staff" section with his expertise listed as "historical & political"

He's all over the document listed as both a consignor and shiller

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rsdill2

I don't know who he is but John Reznikoff is listed on SGC webpage under the "our staff" section with his expertise listed as "historical & political"

He's all over the document listed as both a consignor and shiller

He is also a PSA expert.
http://www.psacard.com/Experts/

If you google him you will see he has had some controversy/mistaken authentications.

[The Nasty Nati]

Wow this could really hurt SGC. I'm a big fan of theirs but yikes.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

Wow this could really hurt SGC. I'm a big fan of theirs but yikes.

i fail to see how this will hurt sgc. you mean after reading this you're gonna send the n167 to psa or beckett instead of sgc? i wonder if mastro will give me an auction credit for the $506 i was shilled out of? too bad we don't have the whole history.

anyone remember wesley liu? he was shilled on only a few lots but the loss % is huge compared to the final prices.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

Add that Goldin acquired Legendary's intellectual property including Legendary's mailing list.

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

Moving post this forward.

I know most of you guys have thousands, maybe hundereds of thousands tied up in your collection. But this hits us lower grade collectors too.

My $100 card is the same as your $1000 when you consider expendable income.

Personally, the SGC news bothers me most. They are who I use (I have a T206 sub there now). I'm kinda rattled with all this information that has come to light.
And, ironically, when I pulled this page up, an ad that said "Trust SGC" was at the top.

To the two that has come forward and told their story, I thank you. What you did was unethical, but you aren't running from it.

But, from what I've read, it's like being shown pictures of your wife in bed with another man, and being told:
I can explain.
It's not what it looks like.
It didn't mean anything.

Wrong is wrong and you have to pay the consequence. Whatever that turns out to be.

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by xplainer

Moving post this forward.

I know most of you guys have thousands, maybe hundereds of thousands tied up in your collection. But this hits us lower grade collectors too.

My $100 card is the same as your $1000 when you consider expendable income.

Personally, the SGC news bothers me most. They are who I use (I have a T206 sub there now). I'm kinda rattled with all this information that has come to light.
And, ironically, when I pulled this page up, an ad that said "Trust SGC" was at the top.

To the two that has come forward and told their story, I thank you. What you did was unethical, but you aren't running from it.

But, from what I've read, it's like being shown pictures of your wife in bed with another man, and being told:
I can explain.
It's not what it looks like.
It didn't mean anything.

Wrong is wrong and you have to pay the consequence. Whatever that turns out to be.

You'll be over all this in a month.

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

You'll be over all this in a month.

No sir, I won't. Some, maybe most, might be. But the memory remains.

[steve_a]

An xls version of the Govt's Exhibit for those looking for an easier format

[Fred]

Great spread sheet. It only makes me sicker to be able to sort this and see the involvement of each individual.

I wonder how many shill bidders will show up to the next National.... probably all that can because they'll have no remorse or some story indicating their innocence.

[Fred]

I'm hoping someone compiles a list of all these butt heads that shilled and their current affiliation in the hobby with an auction house and business. I can see a few prominent auction house names in there. I guess I shouldn't be so surprised.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by xplainer

But, from what I've read, it's like being shown pictures of your wife in bed with another man, and being told:
I can explain.
It's not what it looks like.
It didn't mean anything.

Wrong is wrong and you have to pay the consequence. Whatever that turns out to be.

You can rest assured that if I ever sleep with any of your wives, I won't be able to explain and it'll be exactly what it looks like

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by conor912

You can rest assured that if I ever sleep with any of your wives, I won't be able to explain and it'll be exactly what it looks like

No humor allowed. Post reported.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by conor912

You can rest assured that if I ever sleep with any of your wives, I won't be able to explain and it'll be exactly what it looks like

"Wives"? You mean there's no limit??

[RGold]

I was the consignor of a 1955 Red Man set in the August, 2007 Mastro Auctions which appears on the list being discussed. It is the only item where my name is listed as consignor and Peter Spaeth as the bidder.

Peter has already related the facts and expressed views as I see them. People may question my ethics but I ask that they at least acknowledge that this was the lone entry on a very long list, and that this one transaction was much different than many of those listed. I have had many private transactions with people on this board and as a seller and buyer on eBay, and I hope my past dealings are at least considered before passing judgment.

I made the decision to consign this set with Mastro Auctions despite the fact they would not use a reserve or high starting bid. They told me that they would allow me to select one bidder to place what constitutes a hidden reserve, as long as I understood that if that bid was the winning bid, I would have to pay a buyer's premium on that amount.

I assumed this was an acceptable practice as I was told this was done on other Mastro auction lots. At that time I believe Mastro Auctions was considered the premier auction house in our hobby.

I have been a member on this board for about 8 years, and have read the many discussions regarding shill bidding. My understanding and views have evolved over that time like I am sure it has for many other members. I understand and agree that using a hidden reserve in the way Mastro Auctions suggested is wrong. I only ask that the members here consider that this was done in 2007, that it was recommended by the leading auction house, that it was done once, that the hidden reserve was a fraction of the value of the lot, and that the buyer's premium was paid by me.

There was no intent to deceive anyone. This set was #1 on the PSA Registry by a very large margin. Every card was the highest graded at that time and almost half of the 50 cards were the only ones graded at that level. Any one interested in Red Man cards could see that I retired the set before the auction and then re-registered the set after the auction showing that the set had not changed hands.

Finally, and most importantly, I want to clarify the record. Peter is a good friend and wrote his explanation in such a way as not to distance himself from me, but the fact of the matter is that he did not place these bids, I did. He did know what I was doing because we discussed how I had been instructed to proceed by Doug Allen, and he does not deny that, but he was not an active participant in the bidding. The worst part of this whole affair is that an honest, good guy is being hurt for doing me a favor.