Johnson, Mathewson, or Young? Which one do you think was the best?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Never heard of a Johnson or Mathewson award but have heard of a Cy Young so I would give him the nod among those 3. Now the greatest of all time has 7 Cy Young awards.

One could make a case for Clemens, or Grove, if one did not go with one of the pre-WWI favorites. I can't see Koufax being in the discussion.

[rhettyeakley]

For more Modern players (forgetting about potential Steroid usage here mind you) the greatest would have to include some combination of Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Tom Seaver, and Greg Maddux with a few other names as potential candidates.

[TexasLeaguer]

I would include Bob Gibson and Nolan Ryan among the greatest modern pitchers. Pre-war shout-outs should also go to Carl Hubbell, 3-Finger Brown, and James Creighton. Bob Feller was pre-war and post-war, but he's definitely one of the best.

I would rank Walter Johnson as the greatest of all-time, but could make an argument for Ruth. If I were picking teams in a sandlot game, I'd rather have Ruth than Johnson at pitcher.

[btcarfagno]

Pedro is the best I ever saw. For a short period he may have been the best ever. But over an entire career I don't think anyone compares to WaJo. The consistency and longevity of a Cy Young combined with the stuff of Nolan Ryan. Lethal combination.

Tom C

[cardsfan73]

I would take anyone of the 3, but if forced to choose one it would be Mr. Johnson.

I agree that you could easily add Alexander to the group.

[rhettyeakley]

Walter Johnson's 1912 and 1913 seasons have to go down in history as potentially the greatest 2 consecutive seasons (relative to competition) in history, especially when not counting records of guys playing prior to 1890 (when winning 50 games was a real possibility!)

[CMIZ5290]

Great input guys. Again, I was interested in opinions on these three guys. Obviously, there have been many great ones since then. I just always thought that these three were the originals for the standard off great pitchers of all time...My thoughts are the argument between Johnson and Matty, just my take...

[Fred]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I was interested in opinions on these three guys.

I was trying to figure out what the heck pitchers other than Johnson, Mathewson and Young had to do with the topic question.

Well, the pitching award they give out is named after Cy Young. I don't see a Walter Johnson award or Christy Mathewson award being handed out. Oddly enough, of the three he's the one that didn't make it into the HOF as an original inductee in 1936. HOF vote%: Matty = 90.7%, Johnson = 83.6% and Young at 76.1% in 1937 - what a tough crowd...

However, I'd probably have to pick between Walter and Christy as the overall best of the three.

Walter does hold the record for lifetime shutouts (110) by a pretty large margin over the next guy (Matty is third at 79).

Matty had a better lifetime ERA and WHIP than Johnson (barely) and of the three he had a much better lifetime win%.

I like 'em all.... so, of the three, which has the highest price T206 portrait?

[icollectDCsports]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

But over an entire career I don't think anyone compares to WaJo. The consistency and longevity of a Cy Young combined with the stuff of Nolan Ryan. Lethal combination.

Tom C

Agree and well said.

[CMIZ5290]

Here are some comparable stats....

Mathewson 373-188, ERA 2.12, Innings pitched 4788
Johnson 417-279, ERA 2.17, Innings pitched 5914

[Peter_Spaeth]

Alexander 373-208. 2.56, 5190 IP. But don't forget he pitched through the 20s when ERAs were much higher than the deadball era. And remarkably, he didn't first pitch until he was 24 -- and he missed a year for WWI.

[Touch'EmAll]

Have there ever been any statistical extrapolation semi-educated best guesstimates of Wins/Losses or other career stats for Satchell Paige?

[CW]

Of the 3 posed by Kevin in the OP, I'd go with Johnson. Mathewson really shined when it counted most, the postseason, but Johnson never had the same opportunity due to being on weaker teams. Plus, if Ty Cobb says that Johnson had the most powerful arm in baseball, well... I'll just take Cobb's word for it.

And if the discussion expands into the best ever, it should definitely include a Mr. Leroy Robert "Satchel" Paige.