Check out these T213-2 "error cards".....Show & Tell us about your T213's

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Sean....and, a Happy Thanksgiving to you.

American Lithographic (ALC) most likely did not list Donlin's team because he was in transition (Phillies or Giants ? ?) at the time of this T213 card's printing.

It appears to me that ALC was very responsive to the popularity of both Mike Donlin and Hal Chase in the New York scene (circa 1909 - 1916). Because they
printed these guys on many of their white-bordered tobacco cards.


TED Z
.

Ted... I thought Donlin was claimed on waivers by Philadelphia from Pittsburgh
in late 1912 and he announced his retirement but made a comeback attempt
in the minors in the summer of 1913 and then played with NY in 1914.

[tedzan]

Sean's original question was......
" Why did they list his accomplishments instead of his team? Was it because he was retired, so he didn't have a team? And if so why include him in the set? Was he just that popular ? "


I responded that Donlin (and Chase) were very popular ballplayers (on and off the field) in the New York scene in the early part of the 20th Century.

Now, if this T213 card of Donlin was printed in the first press run in 1914, then his team affiliation is not certain. So, perhaps this explains why ALC printed...... " .300 batter 7 years "
....in his caption.

In the 1913 postseason, John McGraw selected Donlin to go on a barnstorming tour abroad. McGraw was impressed with Donlin's performance on this tour, so he gave Donlin a chance
to play for the 1914 season. Donlin played only partime in 35 games, and retired Oct 1, 1914.

Therefore, perhaps if this T213 card of Donlin was printed during press runs in mid 1914 (or 1915), it would have had...." N. Y. Nat. ".... in it's caption.


TED Z
.

[nolemmings]

I believe it most likely that Donlin NY was issued first, in 1914, and the batting record card issued in 1915. It appears to me that Coupon issued only one printing per year for each of the three years. I also believe the first printing was before mid-July of 1914. Donlin had played for the Giants throughout 1914, just not very often or very well. He would have been on the roster in April and thus known to the set's printer.

It is possible both cards were issued at the same time in 1914, although why the one would lack a team designation seems strange. Then again,why get it so wrong on the number of times he hit .300? By the end of 1914, Donlin was coming off a poor season where all he had done was pinch hit, was 36 years old, got married, and was getting back into the performing arts. His baseball career was shot. The .300 batting record card seems most likely to me some sort of tribute card than one expecting him to play in 1915 for some yet unknown team.

[RCMcKenzie]

Here are my two T213-2 Donlins. The ".300 hitter" variation seems to come up for sale more often than the "NY" card.
This .300 hitter card has the player and team caption from the above card on the sheet, if y'all can identify the name and team it would help us know when the .300 Hitter card was issued...Hummel, Brooklyn??...Marquard, Brooklyn??..What are your guesses?

[tedzan]

I agree with your guesses....it appears to be either John Hummel or Rube Marquard. The Team is definitely Brooklyn Nat.

If it's Hummel, then my guess is 1914.

If it's Marquard, then 1915 (or 1916).


Thanks for showing us these two Donlin cards. And, you're correct....the NY Nat. version is seldom seen.

Your ".300" version is especially neat in that it tells us when it was printed. As I have stated in post #51 here, my theory suggests a 1914 print date.


TED Z
.

[nolemmings]

I can't tell who the card is above Donlin--whether Hummell or Rucker. I do not believe Marquard is found with a Brooklyn Nat. designation--just Brooklyn only.

The Donlin .300 card you show is from either 1914 or 1915. I will stick to my earlier comment that it is more likely 1915. Your Donlin is not from 1916 because of the Brooklyn Nat card above it--I believe in 1916 the Brooklyn only caption was used, since the Fed Lg was kaput and there was no longer any need to distinguish Brooklyn ballclubs (which also explains Marquard, who didn't play for Brooklyn until late 1915).

[RCMcKenzie]

Here are some more pics of the captions. It looks like the caption at the top of the T213-2 Donlin .300 batter card is " Rucker, Brooklyn Nat."... if so, then I guess the Donlin .300 hitter card was issued in 1914 and/or 1915, that's why there are more of them around than the Donlin NY cards...

[tedzan]

Although Mike Donlin played his last MLB game on Oct 1, 1914, American Litho (ALC) included him in their 1919 T213-3 issue.

His T213-3 card's caption simply reads Mike Donlin.


Perhaps, Mike's popularity (especially in the New York area) may explain why ALC chose to continue printing his image 5 years
after his retirement. Or, perhaps because he was still involved in Minor League BB, he might return to playing in the Majors.

In 1916, he managed a semi-pro team in NJ.

In 1917, he managed the Memphis team in the Southern League.

Also that year, the War Department chose Mike to teach BB to U.S. soldiers in France.

And in 1918, he was in California as a BB scout for the Boston Braves.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Hey guys

I acquired this St Louis image of Demmitt quite a few years ago.

I have seen several of them since then. But, I've never seen the
T213-2 New York image of Demmitt.

It must be a tough card ? If you have one, please show it.







Thanks,

TED Z
.

[nolemmings]

Hi Ted,

I don't own a Demmitt NY, but believe it is considerably scarcer than the StL version. As for the latter, maybe you and the T206 guys can provide some guidance here. Does the presence of Demmitt Stl suggest that the folks at Coupon got the majority of their supply from the same printer used by Polar Bear? How many of the T213-2 subjects are NOT found in T206 Polar Bear?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Hi Ted,

I don't own a Demmitt NY, but believe it is considerably scarcer than the StL version. As for the latter, maybe you and the T206 guys can provide some guidance here. Does the presence of Demmitt Stl suggest that the folks at Coupon got the majority of their supply from the same printer used by Polar Bear? How many of the T213-2 subjects are NOT found in T206 Polar Bear?

Of the 114 different subjects in the T213-2 set, 20 of them were not printed with the POLAR BEAR (PB) backs in the T206 set.

All 68 subjects in the T213-2 set that are from the 350/460 and 460-only series in the T206 set were printed with the PB back.
Twenty-six of the 46 subjects in the T213-2 set (that represent the 350-only series of the T206 set) were printed with PB.

American Lithographic in NYC was the same printer for the T206 set (with all it's approx. 5200 front/back permutations), and
the T213 cards (all 3 sets), T214, T215 (both sets).


TED Z
.

[RCMcKenzie]

Ted, I have seen a T213-2 Demmit w/ NY on jersey in a Heritage auction a few years ago. I believe it was in a large lot of cards...Here's my STL one... My understanding is that the T213-2 set is actually complete at 185 cards, as 3 are not known from the early checklists...I used to know which 3, but I have forgotten which ones they are....Rob