Brady Suspension Overturned

[nolemmings]

Yeah but Kraft then backed way off by accepting the NFL's punishment... and Goodell didn't do his part to resolve the Brady piece of it.

Except that: 1) by then, the barndoor had been open far too long, again opened by the Patriots and again, due to their conduct, no one else's; 2) there was never any strict quid pro quo promised for Kraft's acceptance of the NFL punishment, certainly not one where it was agreed Brady could completely skate, especially as he was by far the worst actor in the whole matter; 3) by most and maybe all accounts Brady would not agree to even a single game suspension and would not even sign any acknowledgment of wrongdoing; and, 4) Kraft felt and feels no contrition at all, now complaining that he never should have agreed to the NFL punishment. Look at their conduct--they still claim they did nothing wrong and will not own up to anything. And one must be a hater or envious to find that disgusting?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Todd, turn on the TV next week and root for Pittsburgh. Oh wait, their quarterback had some issues too, maybe even a little more troubling. Damn. 6 game suspension, wasn't it?

[nolemmings]

Ah yes, played like a cornerback--deflection

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Ah yes, played like a cornerback--deflection

Defense lawyer. Go figure.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Defense lawyer. Go figure.

Redirecting attention to what matters.

[Kenny Cole]

I certainly agree with the redirecting part. Its the rest of the statement I'm somewhat dubious about.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Defense lawyer. Go figure.

Bingo. Now followed by trivializing-- it was a only a little bitty boo boo, but by the way we won't even admit to it anyway, and we knew it really didn't matter when we tried our best to keep it under wraps.

Coming soon to a thread near you--rationalization. Everybody cheats, there are worse sinners out there, etc (but by the way we still won't even admit to it anyway, and we knew it really didn't matter when we tried our best to keep it under wraps).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Kidding aside, once Brady went out there immediately with a vigorous denial, the team was never going to throw him under the bus by admitting to even a trivial violation or saying anything undercutting Brady. You can't really have expected them to do that. I think Kraft hoped by not contesting things on the team end of things, the Brady piece would go away. Goodell wasn't buying into it, so it played out as it did. But it was still, in my opinion, pretty damn trivial.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Ah yes, played like a cornerback--deflection

Perspective, son, perspective. One frickin PSI of air let out of a ball. That no official noticed. That meant nothing -- see second half. This is chickenfeed. Integrity of the game, yeah yeah yeah.

[steve B]

There are a few things I keep coming back to in my mind.

The rule is written very poorly. It specifies a PSI range but no temperature. And the pressure does change with temperature.

The way the checking is done is also poor. Two apparently cheap and inaccurate gauges when they were checking at halftime, only one before the game. Gages that are typically off by 2% in the middle of the range. I didn't see in the report what the range was, but even if it was a 0-25 Psi range it could be off by .5 psi. http://www.dascosales.com/pressure-gauge-accuracy.php A guage with .1% accuracy can be had for around $250. every Team should have 2-3 of them, one for staff and at least one in the refs room. NOT some cheap guage provided by the ball manufacturer or Wal-Mart.

On page 15 of the report (linked below) they say the "experts" they hired determined that the gauges would have read consistently, which is obviously wrong if you look at the raw data on page 12. The colts balls measurements are consistent except for one, where the guage that reads higher for three balls reads lower for one. But for the Patriots balls that same guage reads lower than the other on all 11. So I'd say that makes all the rest of their analysis a bit suspect.

On one gage three of the four Colts balls checked were also under 12.5 - where's the punishment?

In the report they have texts discussing balls the were overinflated by the refs. Perhaps as high as 16 Psi. Also a violation of the rule, and by the officials. Again no punishment. Not even a "don't do that" memo.
Top of page 9 Here https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...flategate.html

The rule only calls for a fine.

So evidence that contradicts the science, obtained with poor equipment, supporting a poorly written rule. Yep sounds entirely convincing and fair to me


Steve B

[nolemmings]

Steve, while you blind yourself with science, do you forget that the two equipment guys effectively admitted to deflating the footballs and that Tom Brady liked 'em that way--- oh wait, he claims he didn't know anything about it, never mind.

So yes, going forward the rule will probably need to be changed or at least the protocols will, but as for what occurred last season, few people outside of Patriot Nation doubt that the deflation happened and that it was willful, not accidental or the result of some scientific anomaly. And legally, while the court decision ruled in favor of Brady for other reasons, there was sufficient evidence to sustain the findings.

My two cents for the Pats. Keep on denying you did anything wrong, own up to nothing, and let that be your battleground. Or admit that there was deflation going on, explain that it had no influence on the outcome, it was a minor violation, etc. Pick one. Not two. And if you pick number 1, don't be surprised or hurt when most of the rest of the NFL nation thinks you are full of crap.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Steve, while you blind yourself with science, do you forget that the two equipment guys effectively admitted to deflating the footballs and that Tom Brady liked 'em that way--- oh wait, he claims he didn't know anything about it, never mind.

So yes, going forward the rule will probably need to be changed or at least the protocols will, but as for what occurred last season, few people outside of Patriot Nation doubt that the deflation happened and that it was willful, not accidental or the result of some scientific anomaly. And legally, while the court decision ruled in favor of Brady for other reasons, there was sufficient evidence to sustain the findings.

My two cents for the Pats. Keep on denying you did anything wrong, own up to nothing, and let that be your battleground. Or admit that there was deflation going on, explain that it had no influence on the outcome, it was a minor violation, etc. Pick one. Not two. And if you pick number 1, don't be surprised or hurt when most of the rest of the NFL nation thinks you are full of crap.

The rule and protocols do need to be entirely redone. They've had the entire offseason and if they've redone anything at all they've kept it secret.

The ideal gas laws are just that predictable unchanging laws of science proven for a very long time. Certainly not what I'd call an "Anomaly"

The crappiness of the gauges used is also provable, even assuming they're 25 Psi Guages and not more generic tire pressure types with a larger range (And the probably were) 2% of 25 is .5 Psi, so in the first place there's no way to know they were actually at 12.5 because they could have been anywhere from 12-13 (Or 11.5 - 13.5 if it was a 0-50Psi guage.)

And the results of the "evidence" would be off by as much, since the same gauge was one of the ones used (And which the report states can't be found ....)

Where in the report does it say they admitted deflating the balls?
It does say that for the Jets game the refs overinflated them, to maybe 16 Psi.
Gee, I wonder why.



Ah, the history of "cheating"

Jets guy filming the pats practice signals from a disallowed spot - Removed from the stadium, problem solved.

Pats Guy doing exactly what the Jets guy was doing....Becomes a big deal.

Some question of inflation....
FORMER JETS guy leads the initial "investigation" into it making it a big deal.
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/26/nfl...il-deflategate
Oh the surprise. NOT!

NFL gets heavy handed trying to look good after two complete fiascos over punishment. NFL overreaches and gets caught. Ignores CBA, ignores their own rule, ignores a known problem with the balls http://www.barstoolsports.com/boston...ime-naturally/


The whole thing stinks on many levels, and not just from any one side either.

Steve B

[laughlinfan]

I find the Jets game situation very interesting, and no one has really tried to lay out what happened. I think the most plausible case was that the Pats submitted balls below the range initially, refs checked them, found them to be low, and just pumped some more air in them - way too much apparently. No other reason I can think of for the refs to pump them up (feel free to offer one!). From there, I suspect that McNally either let a little air out (per usual), but it was not enough, or maybe for some reason, McNally couldn't get his opportunity to deflate them. I can't think of any other reason that Brady would be upset with McNally, and why McNally (who, as official locker room attendant, remember, has NO responsibility to add or remove air from a football, EVER!) would be so defiantly angry for over a week(!) at Brady in turn.

Brady did testify that after that game, they instructed the refs to adjust the balls to exactly 12.5.

From the report:
"For example, on October 17, 2014, following a Thursday night game between the
Patriots and the New York Jets during which Tom Brady complained angrily
about the inflation level of the game balls, McNally and Jastremski exchanged the
following text messages:
McNally:

Tom sucks...im going make that next ball a f**kin balloon

Jastremski:

Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and
said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

Jastremski:

I told him it was. He was right though...

Jastremski:

I checked some of the balls this morn... The refs f**ked
us...a few of then were at almost 16

Jastremski:

They didnt recheck then after they put air in them

McNally:

F**k tom ...16 is nothing...wait till next sunday

Jastremski:

Omg! Spaz

On October 21, 2014, McNally and Jastremski exchanged the following text
messages:
McNally:

Make sure you blow up the ball to look like a rugby ball so
tom can get used to it before sunday

Jastremski:

Omg

On October 23, 2014, three days before a Sunday game against the Chicago
Bears, Jastremski and McNally exchanged the following messages:
Jastremski:

Can‟t wait to give you your needle this week

McNally:

Fuck tom....make sure the pump is attached to the
needle.....f**kin watermelons coming

Jastremski:

So angry

McNally:

The only thing deflating sun..is his passing rating

The next day, October 24, 2014, Jastremski and McNally exchanged the
following messages:
Jastremski:

I have a big needle for u this week

McNally:

Better be surrounded by cash and newkicks....or its a rugby
sunday

McNally:

F**k tom

Jastremski:

Maybe u will have some nice size 11s in ur locker

McNally:

Tom must really be working your balls hard this week

On October 25, 2014, McNally and Jastremski exchanged the following
messages:
Jastremski:

Size 11?

Jastremski:

2 or 3X?

McNally:

Tom must really be on you

McNally:

11 0r 11 half......2x unless its tight fitting

Jastremski:

Nah. Hasn‟t even mentioned it, figured u should get
something since he gives u nothing"