Brady Suspension Overturned

egri · #1 09-04-2015, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yanks12025

In the end the Patriots still cheated. If they didn't, Robert Kraft would have fought the penalty and fine alittle hard and not fired the two employees(can't wait till one of them writes a book).

Tom Brady might have been given a pass in the courts because the NFL can run a investigation correctly. But people with a reasonable mind, know he knows he knew about what the ball boys were doing to the balls. They wouldn't mess with the ball without him knowing.

Also the way its reading lately, Tom and the talking horse(tosh.O joke) might not be married much longer.

Kraft accepted the penalties "for the good of the NFL". He later said that was a mistake. Regardless of what you think about Brady, the fact remains that we are in a nation where the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto. That you felt the need to insult his wife and drag their marriage into this tells me all I need to know about the merits (or lack thereof) of your case.

TUM301 · #2 09-04-2015, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egri

Kraft accepted the penalties "for the good of the NFL". He later said that was a mistake. Regardless of what you think about Brady, the fact remains that we are in a nation where the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto. That you felt the need to insult his wife and drag their marriage into this tells me all I need to know about the merits (or lack thereof) of your case.

Nail meet hammer, right on the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ !

Runscott · #3 09-04-2015, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egri

Kraft accepted the penalties "for the good of the NFL". He later said that was a mistake. Regardless of what you think about Brady, the fact remains that we are in a nation where the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto. That you felt the need to insult his wife and drag their marriage into this tells me all I need to know about the merits (or lack thereof) of your case.

Right, so no commissioner can administer ANY disciplinary actions fairly unless he does it through our legal system. Same should be true if a child disobeys his parents. If it doesn't go through our legal system, it doesn't count. Everyone's always right about everything, no matter what the level, and it should take a judge to determine they are wrong.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 09-04-2015, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Right, so no commissioner can administer ANY disciplinary actions fairly unless he does it through our legal system. Same should be true if a child disobeys his parents. If it doesn't go through our legal system, it doesn't count. Everyone's always right about everything, no matter what the level, and it should take a judge to determine they are wrong.

Scott there is a collective bargaining agreement.

Runscott · #5 09-04-2015, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Scott there is a collective bargaining agreement.

Peter - it's obvious, and I'm not being sarcastic, that you understand the legal implications of all of this better than the rest of us, who represent the average joe who is watching from the sidelines. So no need to patronize me - I appreciate your expertise.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 09-04-2015, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Peter - it's obvious, and I'm not being sarcastic, that you understand the legal implications of all of this better than the rest of us, who represent the average joe who is watching from the sidelines. So no need to patronize me - I appreciate your expertise.

Who was patronizing? I was simply explaining that your analogy didn't hold under the circumstances.

Runscott · #7 09-04-2015, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who was patronizing? I was simply explaining that your analogy didn't hold under the circumstances.

I'm aware of the collective bargaining agreement (plus, you already mentioned it in your previous response to me) - to the average guy watching football (as I already mentioned), I think my analogy holds up perfectly. I'm not a lawyer, and most people aren't - that fact gets lost on this forum because the lawyers are the ones who talk the 'loudest' and who absolutely never back down.

nolemmings · #8 09-04-2015, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egri

Kraft accepted the penalties "for the good of the NFL". He later said that was a mistake. Regardless of what you think about Brady, the fact remains that we are in a nation where the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto. That you felt the need to insult his wife and drag their marriage into this tells me all I need to know about the merits (or lack thereof) of your case.

While of course you're entitled to your opinion, the statement "there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto" is utter B.S. Moreover, it is precisely over the top comments like that lead to the very great number of "Patriot haters" venting the way they do. This constant persecution complex sprinkled with the we did nothing wrong attitude sickens many, myself included. As noted, the case was "won" by the NFLPA if you will because of reasons that had essentially nothing to with the evidence and/or what was proved or not proved. Enjoy your victory, but expect to keep taking crap if you come here and tell us the Patriots are "innocent".

kcohen · #9 09-04-2015, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

While of course you're entitled to your opinion, the statement "there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto" is utter B.S. Moreover, it is precisely over the top comments like that lead to the very great number of "Patriot haters" venting the way they do. This constant persecution complex sprinkled with the we did nothing wrong attitude sickens many, myself included. As noted, the case was "won" by the NFLPA if you will because of reasons that had essentially nothing to with the evidence and/or what was proved or not proved. Enjoy your victory, but expect to keep taking crap if you come here and tell us the Patriots are "innocent".

So let the "Patriot haters" vent. Their whining and envy would sicken me if I cared. If it works for them that's cool. I suppose whining and envy are chicken soup for the soul.

Peter_Spaeth · #10 09-04-2015, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

While of course you're entitled to your opinion, the statement "there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto" is utter B.S. Moreover, it is precisely over the top comments like that lead to the very great number of "Patriot haters" venting the way they do. This constant persecution complex sprinkled with the we did nothing wrong attitude sickens many, myself included. As noted, the case was "won" by the NFLPA if you will because of reasons that had essentially nothing to with the evidence and/or what was proved or not proved. Enjoy your victory, but expect to keep taking crap if you come here and tell us the Patriots are "innocent".

I think this was much ado about nothing, but not because of the lack of evidence against Brady. There was no smoking gun proving he directed anyone to do anything, but there was certainly strong circumstantial evidence, as set out in the report. He did not come across as particularly credible, to me.

nolemmings · #11 09-04-2015, 05:12 PM

Quote:

So let the "Patriot haters" vent. Their whining and envy would sicken me if I cared. If it works for them that's cool. I suppose whining and envy are chicken soup for the soul.

Believe me, I have not an ounce of envy for the Patriots. But hey, keep drinking that Kool Aid.

kcohen · #12 09-04-2015, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Believe me, I have not an ounce of envy for the Patriots. But hey, keep drinking that Kool Aid.

And you keep drinking that chicken soup.

nolemmings · #13 09-04-2015, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think this was much ado about nothing, but not because of the lack of evidence against Brady. There was no smoking gun proving he directed anyone to do anything, but there was certainly strong circumstantial evidence, as set out in the report. He did not come across as particularly credible, to me.

I don't have a real problem with the decision as stated. I also agree with your analysis other than perhaps the first clause in the first sentence. We can debate the effect or advantage of improperly inflated footballs and thus the rule governing them, but it appears to me it was much ado about something the Patriots thought important, and that they took noticeable lengths to try and avoid the rule. This was fairly orchestrated conduct that they clearly wanted kept hush hush. Why if it really makes no difference?

Also, while I agree there should be adequate notice of the potential penalty such that 4 games under these circumstances was excessive and violative of the CBA, it strains credulity to make the argument that gee I thought such infraction would only carry a $25K fine. You don't go to such lengths just to avoid such a minimal penalty. Brady and the Patriots, maybe others as well, would gladly and openly pay $25K for the opportunity to fine-tune the pressure on their footballs. Hell, do it on the sidelines and hand the check to the NFL on the spot--it's worth it. IMO they knew damn well that what they were doing was more than a token equipment violation. This case did/does have integrity of the game implications-do you really think that Goodell thought it a good idea to slap one of the league's more popular franchises and an even more popular player just for giggles, knowing that this crap storm would likely follow where even if he wins he's skewered? This is why I cannot agree that it is really much ado but nothing. Goodell handled it poorly--quelle surpris--but that doesn't mean there was nothing there or it wasn't worth protecting. There are no winners here.

Peter_Spaeth · #14 09-04-2015, 06:18 PM

I don't think Goodell necessarily thought the integrity of the game was on the line. I think he was worried that if he let it go, or imposed a token fine, he would be skewered for favoritism because the Patriots and their poster boy were involved. I think it was, in short, politics, not genuine concern. Or could be explained that way anyhow, as we can't know his subjective motivations.

nolemmings · #15 09-04-2015, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't think Goodell necessarily thought the integrity of the game was on the line. I think he was worried that if he let it go, or imposed a token fine, he would be skewered for favoritism because the Patriots and their poster boy were involved. I think it was, in short, politics, not genuine concern. Or could be explained that way anyhow, as we can't know his subjective motivations.

That may be true on one or more levels Peter, at least I know I�ve heard that previously. But what does that say about the Patriots then? See, they knew or with any internal investigation would have learned that they in fact did the very type of thing the Commissioner was looking into�deflating footballs. How do they respond? They send their QB out to publicly deny that he knew anything about it�an interview not only unconvincing to anyone with at least a double-digit IQ but one universally panned as false by more than a dozen quarterbacks who played the position. Instead of going behind closed doors and trying to work out something with their so-called buddy Goodell they pretty pre-emptively spit in his face. So if indeed it was blown way out of proportion you can lay a good heap of blame for that on Kraft, Brady, et al.

Peter_Spaeth · #16 09-04-2015, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

That may be true on one or more levels Peter, at least I know I�ve heard that previously. But what does that say about the Patriots then? See, they knew or with any internal investigation would have learned that they in fact did the very type of thing the Commissioner was looking into�deflating footballs. How do they respond? They send their QB out to publicly deny that he knew anything about it�an interview not only unconvincing to anyone with at least a double-digit IQ but one universally panned as false by more than a dozen quarterbacks who played the position. Instead of going behind closed doors and trying to work out something with their so-called buddy Goodell they pretty pre-emptively spit in his face. So if indeed it was blown way out of proportion you can lay a good heap of blame for that on Kraft, Brady, et al.

Yeah but Kraft then backed way off by accepting the NFL's punishment... and Goodell didn't do his part to resolve the Brady piece of it.

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