Seeing Red. Show those classy T210's

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by Jason

Very nice card! My OB Jones has a weak A but that one is very cool.

Jason,

Perhaps you inadvertantly gave an important clue as to which came first in the print run? The orange or the reds !? I need to start looking at all the Jones' cards and see if there might be a pattern. I have only seen 2 Red Jones' and I don't remember if the other Jones is missing the A. I am quite sure all the OB Jones I have seen (about 4 or 5) have the A on Oklahoma.

Hmmmm....

[Cat]

One and only:

[kkkkandp]

Originally Posted by Cat

One and only:

Whoooooeee - that one is special!

[Piratedogcardshows]

Originally Posted by DixieBaseball

Jason,

Perhaps you inadvertantly gave an important clue as to which came first in the print run? The orange or the reds !? I need to start looking at all the Jones' cards and see if there might be a pattern. I have only seen 2 Red Jones' and I don't remember if the other Jones is missing the A. I am quite sure all the OB Jones I have seen (about 4 or 5) have the A on Oklahoma.

Hmmmm....

Ill check my Yellow Border Jones as well to see the A printing on that one. I have quickly formulated a pretty cool theory as to the missed A and what it means in the OB/RED printing timeline.

Cat..if I could only own one thats def in my top two I would choose. Great Stengel.

[DixieBaseball]

Jason,

For the record, my OB Jones has a faint, partially missing A on the card. Also, I checked and the other Oklahoma players have the A, so it's specific to Jones and it is also specific to the color type with the A missing from Red and the A partially showing on the Orange... Need to see more examples to get a crystal clear picture.

CAT - Love that Maysville card!

[edjs]

A question involving T210/211. Since Jackson is in the T210-8 series, and T211s use images from T210-8, in theory, could Jackson be out there somewhere in the T211 Green Borders? Anyone else ever wonder about this?

[Piratedogcardshows]

Originally Posted by edjs

A question involving T210/211. Since Jackson is in the T210-8 series, and T211s use images from T210-8, in theory, could Jackson be out there somewhere in the T211 Green Borders? Anyone else ever wonder about this?

Dont quote this as the gospel but this is my understanding of it from info in a previous thread I cant locate

The Series 8 T210 cards were possibly printed in two batches.The first group of subjects printed were 75 in count the same as the T211 checklist. Then they printed the rest later in another group kind of like how T206 Piedmonts come in 150/350 Series. The JJ was in the later printing so wasnt included in the T211 set. Thats what my memory recalls anyway im sure someone can confirm or refute that with ease.

[Piratedogcardshows]

And here is another T210 I forgot about until i pulled it out to scan it the other day. Lucked into this one. Looks like a guy you dont want to F with or maybe Wagners little brother.

[Bocabirdman]

You guys are going to MAKE me break down and scan some more, aren't you?

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by edjs

A question involving T210/211. Since Jackson is in the T210-8 series, and T211s use images from T210-8, in theory, could Jackson be out there somewhere in the T211 Green Borders? Anyone else ever wonder about this?

Ed,

Great question and one I have pondered for many years as I have collected both sets for over 15 years or so. In theory it is possible for Jackson to be out there, along with the other 38 missing T211-T210 sister cards or 2nd series or 2nd release as I like to refer to them, but it would probably exists as a 1 of 1 Proof like the Southern League T206 proofs (Osteen-Montgomery, Pepe-Montgomery) that were recently unearthed a few years back. (Perhaps Katrina even wiped out any chance of finding those proofs in Irby's buildings or neighboring businesses or simply they never got around to producing or distributing them...) Reason I say this, is on the back of the Red Sun's it says " 1 to 75 - Series One " indicating there might be a 2nd series release. Where this gets interesting to me is I have looked at the 75 T210's that coincide with the 75 T211's very closely for over a decade and there is an obvious scarcity issue with the remaining 39 T210's in the Series 8 set. While all of them are somewhat difficult to some degree, there is a group that are more rare than the first 75. We know that T211's were printed and released early in 1910 and so was T210 Series 8, but I believe there was a 2nd group of T210-8's released after the first 75 a little later in 1910, thus making them more scarce/rare and why a collector of the series 8 T210's will find that 39 cards are a lot tougher to come by than the other 75. (One exception would be if a collector can afford to buy a large group as they would potentially gloss over the difficulty. I assembled mine one by one or very small groups over a long period of time) This can get confusing as by blind luck or timing one might get a few out of that 39 card group, but over time one will discover that the bulk of them are exceedingly difficult vs the first 75. I could have put 4 sets of the 75 together of the Series 8 if I had been diligent over the last decade, but I just finished the 1st subset of 39 cards thanks to David McDonald generously mailing me the last card I needed (Crandall-Memphis). That quest for those 39 cards took me 15 years. You need not look any further than the T211 75 and compare with T210-8 75, then look at the remaining 39 T210's. Those 39 are exceedingly more rare. (i.e. Chattanooga group, several of the Memphis group, most of the Birmingham group, a few of the Montgomery and New Orleans group including Jackson) This only became clear to me after several years and in particular the last few years. My theory may be wrong or off a little on that 39, but I know they are more rare and near impossible to find. Hope this makes some sense.... While not likely to find a Jackson, my bet is it was going to be produced like it was in the T210-8 group, but they never printed/distributed a 2nd series /2nd release of T211's. One other bit of information regarding distribution of the T210's and T211's is the Southern Association had 8 teams and Little Rock was one of them, but that team was sold and became Chattanooga, so while the other 7 teams (Atlanta, New Orleans, Montgomery, Mobile, Nashville, Memphis, Birmingham) were in the Southern Association, Chattanooga joined later after the sale. Coincidentally, Chattanooga is the only team where I show all 10 of the cards to be in that 39. The other teams have partial or no representative in that 39 cards. (2nd series or 2nd release, etc.) --- Apologies for the long winded reply

Now, if you have read this far, then you are generally interested. If you haven't, I don't blame you. It's way down South in the weeds.

[edjs]

Jerome,

You nailed it in your explanation. I've always known JJ was not in the 211s, but I never knew the why. You make a lot of sense. One can dream, though, that someday one of the other 39 might surface, even as a proof, in the 211 set. Then you would see some serious searches for more examples. In the meantime, I will keep looking to complete the known set. I am getting there, one card at a time. Only 60 more to go.

Jason, sorry to off track your thread, but these 210/211s just fascinate me. And of course, I started my 210 collection with series 8. Many more of those to go.

[Bocabirdman]

Here are a few....the good the bad and the FUGLY....I ran out of gas.......or I would have dome a few more Raw..... Slabs would be later......


SERIES ONE

Series 1 451 001.jpg
Series 1 452 001.jpg
Series 1 453 001.jpg

SERIES TWO
Series Two p1 451 001.jpg
2COPYSeries Two p1 45 001.jpg
Series Two p1 453 001.jpg
Series Two p2 45 001.jpg
Series Two p3 45 001.jpg

SERIES THREE
Series Three p1 451 001.jpg
Series Three p1 452 001.jpg
Series Three p1 453 001.jpg
Series Three p2 45 001.jpg

SERIES SEVEN

SERIES Seven 451 001.jpg
SERIES Seven 452 001.jpg
SERIES Seven 453 001.jpg

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by edjs

Jerome,

You nailed it in your explanation. I've always known JJ was not in the 211s, but I never knew the why. You make a lot of sense. One can dream, though, that someday one of the other 39 might surface, even as a proof, in the 211 set. Then you would see some serious searches for more examples. In the meantime, I will keep looking to complete the known set. I am getting there, one card at a time. Only 60 more to go.

Jason, sorry to off track your thread, but these 210/211s just fascinate me. And of course, I started my 210 collection with series 8. Many more of those to go.

Ed - Going for the t211 set is awesome. There have only been a scant few put together. I got to about 50 or so and gave up the ghost. The T210-8's have kept me on course though as there is so much history there. The Southern Association was littered with Big League ball players. It really was a high quality of ball and players back in the day.