BST transaction gone very bad with "lost" check

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Okay, it took me 10 seconds to read your first response, deem it 'moronic' and type my response. I apologize for calling your comment 'moronic', as I know you aren't a moron, but this is a serious situation and worthy of a little bit more thought.

Ian has gotten screwed. He has described the situation in detail. The accused knows Ian's handle, as he made the deal here...duh....and how in the world would 'no response' indicate that the accused is '[not] here to defend them'?!? The accused has ignored both Ian AND Leon and now he is ignoring them again. Please - read the posts before jumping in half-cocked. This is a serious situation.

Thanks Scott, I couldn't have said it better. Jake, I don't really mind if you take it with a grain of salt or not, it's not gonna change how I approach this. Just curious, why do you think you need to know? Are you going to do anything to help? As said, if I see him selling ANYTHING else, I will post his username, so others will be warned. I don't want to start a needless witch hunt though, nor do I want this discussion to devolve. I'd prefer things stay civilized, and hope to get some good ideas/input. I've really appreciated feedback received so far.

He is not defenseless. As Scott says, if he sees this thread, he'll know it's about our bad deal, and would have a chance to speak up. I hope he does break his silence and posts here, since something would be better than nothing, right? I'm definitely not fully opposed to naming the seller (a handful of people I trust do know), I just don't see anything to gain by calling him out publicly here and now. I see he has not been logged on for 3 days, but I know he's on the board regularly. Given he's ignored my emails, I hope he eventually sees this thread and contacts me. From there, a very specific chain of events would need to take place, and a chain in which I believe beyond doubt he's not involved. This being said, I think it's unlikely to play out this way (everyone I've spoken with, including law enforcement believe he is involved), but there's still that 1% chance, right? If in the end, it's not totally clear he's not involved, I'll let everyone know who this is.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I have extensive work experience chasing financial fraudsters [NOT saying that there is fraud here, just providing a frame of reference for my suggestion]. The nice thing about checks is that they leave an auditable trail. Get a copy of the front and back of your cashed check. When you deposit a check the bank stamps it with information that can be reviewed to determine where it was deposited. If it went into an account that has nothing to do with the seller or originated from a place like a check cashing service that is not where the seller is located odds are the check was stolen and cashed by a third party and the seller really is innocent.

The law is stacked 100% in favor of the banks when it comes to checking accounts:

1. Banks do not have to dishonor a check you write just because you tell them it was stolen or lost. I just had to put one on a check at WFB [$31 for 6 months] but it is ineffective if the check is cashed anywhere other than at a branch of your bank. If the check is presented for deposit and sent to your bank while a hold is in effect it will be rejected, but that's the end of the protection.

2. Banks are not liable for not catching a stale check--or any other SNAFU or breach of their own account rules--if they have 'reasonable' methods in place to administer the account and one happens to slip through. That is in the Uniform Commercial Code, which has been adopted in nearly every state in some form. And you thought Little League was the last time in life you get a trophy for trying...

3. If the bank sends you a statement every month you may have as little as 30 days to catch even the most egregious fraud/bank error or the bank may not have liability for your losses. A client of mine recently caught an ex-employee embezzling funds over nearly three years by using a fraudulent transfer instruction and the bank was liable for just the prior month's unauthorized transaction.

Adam, thanks for clearly summarizing. I've learned these things over the past 2 months+ and am appalled. I always thought Paypal gift/friends family was the riskiest way to go, but now knowing how many loose ends there are when writing a personal check, I'm re-assessing. At least Paypal doesn't allow the seller the ability to say "I didn't get it". I guess I could've sent the check with tracking, but frankly had never worried too much about checks... nor had I worried about longtime BST sellers. All my other dozens of BST transactions have gone without issue, and several times I've remained in contact with sellers just because they're nice guys.

That said, I guess it all boils down to trusting the seller. I wouldn't worry about Scott or Dan trying to screw me over a lost check. This incident doesn't affect trust earned by many of the sellers here, nor the AHs I've had great experiences with--- LOTG, B&L, Sterling, JVAC, to name a few.

Originally Posted by bnorth

Sorry to hear of your problem Ian, hope it works out for you. Please don't take it out on all us payment Through The Mail people. I have made over 100 transactions on Net54 by check/cash with 0 problems.

Ben, sorry if I came across as taking it out on sellers. Honestly, I have become a little bitter towards banks and their loose/inconsistent policies, but I in no way think sellers who require checks/MO are trying to screw people. I do think most/many however are not fully aware of how non-secure personal checking can be.

Almost everyone I've talked to, including my wife and the police have told me with "near certainty" some variation on there being a fixed term of validity for old checks... all, with exception of a couple (posters here) have thought checks are no good after a certain period-- 90 days, 180 days, 12 months, etc ("after 14 months?? no that can't happen, it's no good after 6 mths", etc). Until this happened, I'd have thought the same as the others.

I'd never considered this topic worrisome until now. I'd guess I've got a half dozen "lost" checks out there over a 20+ year period. I don't remember any specifically, but any of them could come back to bite me.

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

What if it was an honest slip up

Rich, I always appreciate an opposing POV, always better to understand multiple perspectives. I also sort of misspoke in my first post. My first impression was not that he'd done something bad. My first impression was that he had probably received the check sometime after I sent my paypal money, then lost it in a pile. He then found it a year later, forgetting what it was for (though I did write the player name on it) and happily deposited it at Christmas to help offset holiday spending. I emailed him, fully expecting he'd done this by mistake, though admittedly I did take an urgent tone because my rent was due in 4 days and this amount had sucked my checking account dry. After his first round of responses, I became highly suspicious though. There are other small details I didn't bother to mention that were also suspicious, and the stuff he claimed about a supposed bank teller confiscating the affidavit form was just ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Centauri

This may be of little solace, but a similar thing happened at my company - We paid a vendor by check, vendor claimed he didn't receive it, we sent a second check and placed a bank hold on the first check. The second check was cashed immediately. 7 months later, the first check was cashed. This is how I discovered the 6 month limit on a bank hold....

Ben, thanks for posting. I'd hoped a similar story would surface. I'll shoot you an email as I'm curious to know tactics your company is taking, and how things are playing out.

Jobu, he last logged onto the site on 2/9. I do have his phone number and called, as has my bank's investigator.

BTW- I think this would be hard for anyone to track down. I did not post at all in his sale thread, as communications were by PM and email only... so if you look back at my posting history it will probably lead you in the wrong direction, and to transactions done around the same time with Dan (Gobucsmagic), Brad Pencil, etc. Those were great transactions, and I don't want anyone forming conclusions about the wrong people. Again, if he posts an item for sale on BST, I'll give fair warning to any perspective buyers.