Another Antiques Roadshow Tobacco collection.. Wow!

[T206.org]

Originally Posted by Bieg

Here is the Ty Cobb that was featured on Roadshow... We would be interested to know what you folks think this card is worth

A comparable example (currently the highest graded) sold in 2009 for $3,346:
http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/19.../a/716-81084.s

Today it would likely go for more, especially if it were to grade higher than PSA 5 (which I think it would).

[Bieg]

Originally Posted by T206.org

A comparable example (currently the highest graded) sold in 2009 for $3,346:
http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/19.../a/716-81084.s

Today it would likely go for more, especially if it were to grade higher than PSA 5 (which I think it would).

Do you mean that the card that sold for $3,346 is the highest graded Ty Cobb portrait red American beauty back and hers might be better?

[T206.org]

Exactly.
Although the previous example looks under-graded in my opinion.
The corners and centering look like they're stronger on hers, but the registration isn't.
In any case, with grading being subjective, you never know what'll happen.

[Bieg]

Awesome!

One more question' she has an outstanding T205 Oakes, Rebel - Hassan Back which has "Rebel" misspelled as "Rehel" twice on the back. Is this a known error? I was unable to find it listed as such.

[asoriano]

Originally Posted by Bieg

Awesome!

One more question' she has an outstanding T205 Oakes, Rebel - Hassan Back which has "Rebel" misspelled as "Rehel" twice on the back. Is this a known error? I was unable to find it listed as such.

It's been pointed out in the past, but commands no premium because each advertisement reads "Rehel" on the reverse.

Now if she has a nice T205 Wilhelm with a Hassan back then that would be a highly sought after error card.

[Bieg]

Thank you for your help. Does that error decrease the value? Other than the error it looks better (to me anyway) or as good as the one they say is the highest graded

[GrayGhost]

wow

[Bieg]

Actually this one has the same error. Only difference is hers has a Hassan back


http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/..._fall/216.html

[mrvster]

I was wondering about the T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 and 350 NO FRAMES...

I have the T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 NO FRAME SUBSET almost complete (35 out of the 37 cards )....and I am looking for the JOHNSON and MAGEE. to complete it....please see if these 2 are available????

please look also, if there are any T206 American beauty 460 NO FRAMES

some common combos are VERY RARE!!! and may not seem like a big deal, but are very low populations......TED Z can explain more....

TED Z needs a few to complete the 460 set (10 or so).....


can you PLEASE list what you have in the collection(t206 ab 350 and 460 NO FRAME??? I'm very curious

many of us here can give you a REALLY ACCURATE MARKET VALUE APP. of the entire collection...just post/ask....

TURNER is a T205 expert as many here are in certain issues just from chasing them for years....



PLEASE let us see the collection....you may have a hidden gem somewhere...

any other T206 backs??? RARE ONES?? hindu??? broadleaf?? ect?? freaks??

just dreaming...





email me with any T206 questions at any time

Peace

Johnny

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bieg

Actually this one has the same error. Only difference is hers has a Hassan back


http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/..._fall/216.html

Welcome to the board and thanks for coming on and posting. That T205 in your post, from Robert Edward Auctions, is graded an 8 and is very high for the series. As you probably know condition is a key to value and the gold border cards were notorious for flaking. Good luck with everything.

[freakhappy]

Wow! Thanks Bieg for coming on here and sharing this information with us...such a pleasure to know more about this great collection. It's also great knowing that you two are taking the proper measures to protect the cards and yourselves through this whole process.

A lot of people on here will be very grateful that you shared this info and will be happy to help you out once tomorrow hits...a lot of very knowledgeable people that can answer most likely any question you have for them.

One thing...is there a checklist of all of the cards that you have or is that being kept confidential for some reason? Thanks and good luck with everything!

[Bieg]

She has the Magee 350 no frame in pretty much the same shape as the Cobb but she is not looking to sell anything at this time. If and when she does I promise to let this forum know.

I have the whole collection indexed and all the photos in indexed order in a PDF but it is entirely my wife's call on who gets to see that.

I think she might be amiable if one or two of the acknowledged experts here wanted to evaluate it and give her a more precise value.

Originally Posted by mrvster

I was wondering about the T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 and 350 NO FRAMES...

I have the T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 NO FRAME SUBSET almost complete (35 out of the 37 cards )....and I am looking for the JOHNSON and MAGEE. to complete it....please see if these 2 are available????

please look also, if there are any T206 American beauty 460 NO FRAMES

some common combos are VERY RARE!!! and may not seem like a big deal, but are very low populations......TED Z can explain more....

TED Z needs a few to complete the 460 set (10 or so).....


can you PLEASE list what you have in the collection(t206 ab 350 and 460 NO FRAME??? I'm very curious

many of us here can give you a REALLY ACCURATE MARKET VALUE APP. of the entire collection...just post/ask....

TURNER is a T205 expert as many here are in certain issues just from chasing them for years....



PLEASE let us see the collection....you may have a hidden gem somewhere...

any other T206 backs??? RARE ONES?? hindu??? broadleaf?? ect?? freaks??

just dreaming...





email me with any T206 questions at any time

Peace

Johnny

[vintagesportscollector]

Thanks for sharing Bieg and the best of luck to your wife and you. It is exhilerating to learn more about this collection directly from the owners. You have definitely come to the right place, as there are no more knowledgeable sources than the passionate experts on this forum. You will certainly understand fully what you have, and a much more precise value, from them. I only dabble in cards, but I enjoy the AR show and this is the first time I have ever learned more about an item(s) after seeing it in the show.

[mrvster]

Thanks!!!

lmk id be happy to help....

if she decides to sell / trade the magee w/ bat, I have plenty to trade.......sell.....

I will not bother you.......but you would make me happy by almost completing my sub set

I was looking for a hole filler, cond not an issue...I do have other nf's to trade ect...

can you say how many 350 no frames and 460 no frames you have????


just curious

thanks

peace

johnny

[Bieg]

She is not looking to trade, that is not her game. The Magee is in excellent condition so if she ever decides to sell it, it would fetch top dollar. I will post a picture in the morning but I don't think she is interested in selling at this time.

[Bieg]

The Magee

T206 Magee, Sherry (With Bat) - American Beauty Back-001.jpg

[Bieg]

The Oakes

T205 Oakes, Rebel - Hassan Back-001.jpg

[toledo_mudhen]

Wow - Just Wow.......

[cfc1909]

very nice collection and thank you so much for sharing it.

A few of us run a website called T206Resource.com. You will be able to find a great deal of information about your cards there. For example where the American Beauty brand is located is scarcity among the other tobacco brands.

you can contact us directly from the site with any questions

my personal contact

stemmers37@yahoo.com

Jim Rivera

[mrvster]

Great to see you post!

Beig.....

thanks for sharing magee scan! yup, that's the one I need, but yours is a beauty!

I understand about trading ......... but if you ever decide to move a card, I'd be interested in that magee

please find wajo ! ab 350 nf

the resource is the best !

[barrysloate]

Bieg- Thanks for coming on and sharing that information. Has your wife ever considered getting the cards professionally graded? While it is not a necessity, it really wouldn't be a bad idea.

Regarding the Cobb, it looks like it would grade a 5 or a 6, maybe even a 5.5, who knows, and is likely worth some thing north of $5000. The most amazing thing about the collection, as Simeon said, is of course the condition. It's tough to keep them that nice for a hundred years.

[mrvster]

+ 1 what Barry said...

GET THEM SGC GRADED!

inmho....sgc the best......psa is second best(taste great less filling)

that will at least truly protect them and protect you....

please consider mr magee with bat for mrvster in any future(unless I get one sooner)

Please tell us how many 460 and 350 frame and no frames! we love to know

if you want

thanks again for sharing....we live for this stuff

[mrvster]

if your wife's uncle(rest his soul and THANK GOD he saved the cards).... was a drum or broadleaf smoker, you'd be planning your retirement right now

[Bieg]

She will NOT send them off somewhere out of her sight and I can't blame her. If and when she decides to sell them the auction house can grade them at that time.

As she is not a trader, buyer or seller the grading (other than having an idea what to insure them for which Roadshow gave her) is meaningless to her. I know that idea is heresy to you guys. Her point of view is they are wonderful, she loves to study them and just enjoys them for their beauty.

For what it is worth the photos are a true representation of the cards warts and all. No Photoshop tricks (other than compositing the front & back into one image) to pretty them up. You guys should be able to get a good idea of the quality

[Bieg]

Are there T202 Hassan Triple Folder experts here also?

My favorites are her T202s and they ALL are like this one below;

T202 (Ty Cobb Steals Third) H.Jennings-T.Cobb-001.jpg


Would this be the top grade in this series? Am I correct in assuming that they ALL were folded when they were in the pack of cigarettes or did these only come if you bought a carton and ones that have never been folded would be "mint"?

[Rickyy]

Jaw dropping...nice to see that there are still well preserved collections like this that pop out to the public.

Thanks for the info and the pics Bieg!

Ricky Y

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Bieg

She will NOT send them off somewhere out of her sight and I can't blame her. If and when she decides to sell them the auction house can grade them at that time.

As she is not a trader, buyer or seller the grading (other than having an idea what to insure them for which Roadshow gave her) is meaningless to her. I know that idea is heresy to you guys. Her point of view is they are wonderful, she loves to study them and just enjoys them for their beauty.

For what it is worth the photos are a true representation of the cards warts and all. No Photoshop tricks (other than compositing the front & back into one image) to pretty them up. You guys should be able to get a good idea of the quality

This is refreshing...and is the reason many of us got into vintage cards in the first place...for their beauty and historical interest...to us! Good for her. I hope if and when they are ever sold they are sold as a group...alhough this is not a likely scenario that they will ultimately stay together!

[mrvster]

I am a true collector.....I enjoy the cards like your wife does....I love to smell them, stare at them, find examples....

I appreciate the fact that she enjoys them for their true beauty, as I do...

I can appreciate where she's coming from....

my true suggestion, is have her enjoy them.....then, when it's time, pass them on to your kids, or like you said auction them off....but, JUST ENJOY THEM!

condition, for me, is really not an issue when it comes to collecting my cards....

actually, the uglier , the better

[mrvster]

"American Beauties!"

[mrvster]

[T206.org]

Johnny, that full-size AB Konetchy is amazing!!

[mrvster]

for American Beauties, T206, old cardboard , and most of all GREAT collectors and friends like I have met on this board!

many of my American beauties were graciously given to me by true collectors from this board....GOD BLESS YOU GUYS! you know who you are...

you collectors are the "true American beauties"

Beig and your wife....congrats on a great collection, I hope to see more of them!! thanks for continuing to share....and ENJOY!

btw.....we would love to have you and your wife continue to enjoy net54....you guys will love it here!

my true passion is T206 printer's scrap, or the "Wagner"

I am johnny, and I am a T206 NUT

[Bieg]

Please tell us how many 460 and 350 frame and no frames! we love to know

Out of 105 American Beauty backed T206s there are

54 - 350 Frame

28 - 350 No Frame

23 - 460

What is the significance of this? Different years in the set?

[Bieg]

This is the worst card in the whole collection fortunately it is the ONLY one like this;

T205 Sheckard, James - Hassan Back-001.jpg

As you can plainly see the photography is "warts and all"

[mrvster]

you are so sharp! thanks! I think it's a "tweener" ab scrap.....was wondering who would notice first....

btw...the konetchy is TOUGH! hint...hint....and the conroy, and some other commons....

I'm talking tuf!......there is a print connection between DRUM and ab 350 no frame.....Tim and Jim maybe able to elaborate....Tim is still cracking the code....these cards have flown under the radar

konetchy-oversize, hand cut, has a wet stack on front....very cool and weird/ odd.....a true beauty and "hole" filler....

almost have the set complete, just magee and wajo to go!

[mrvster]

THANKS FOR THE BREAKDOWN!

we are researchers.....that % breakdown seems to reflect their "rarity"

t206resource lists the rarity in back scarcity....

ab 460 rarest! #13

ab 350 rarer #15

ab 350 frame rare #21

from the back rarity from 1-39 approximately

1909-1911 t206 were printed.....ab 460's printed in 1911( last print group).....1910 ab 350 frame and no frame printed second print group 350 subjects......

ab 350 nf 37 possible cards

ab 350 frame - 190 possible

ab 460 nf - 75 possible


all taken info from the resource.....

as far as I know, no one has completed any of them yet

Ted z is almost complete on ab 460

I'm 2 cards short on ab 350 nf...


ANYONE ELSE ATTEMPT THESE SETS???

[mrvster]

btw....the Sheckard is SEXY

I love the "beaters" as you can see.....I just love the history and examples....

it's a true love of cardboard, or a problem for me

we learn from each other here....kinda like a "cardboard family" here

we also try to protect each other from scams and losers

[mrvster]

this Sheckard scan is for you! one of the more "common" ab 460 , but has a very "rare" green print/crop mark on the back(the green line in the middle)...

these "small" things on a card can some times bring a big "premium"

[Bieg]

In the opinion of the group how would this card be rated, no crop mark but the rarest of the AB backs?


T206 Sheckard, Jimmy (Glove Showing) - American Beauty Back-001.jpg

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Bieg

In the opinion of the group how would this card be rated, no crop mark but the rarest of the AB backs?


Attachment 176265

Are those "rarer" than 350 no frame?

[mrvster]

Great question! some ab 350 no frame are rarer that 460 no frame and vice a versa.....

some almost could say they are very close in rarirty.....some ab 350 nf are just plain TOUGH!

btw....Beig.....sheckard ab 460 raw you have is sweet!!! it is a more"common" ab 460, but a goodie still....$350.00 card or better you have there

[mrvster]

squeeze it in a psa or sgc ex maybe 500 +....

[mrvster]

where's Ted

[mrvster]

is an American beauty 460 obsessor....

paging mr z

[CW]

Originally Posted by Bieg

In the opinion of the group how would this card be rated, no crop mark but the rarest of the AB backs?


Attachment 176265

One thing that can be hard to spot in a scan or a photo is surface wrinkles or very minor creases. The photos you present are good quality, but it would've been easier to spot corner and edge wear if the backgrounds were black instead of white.

Assuming the Sheckard card you posted has no wrinkles or minor paper loss, it looks like an easy EX 5 card, possibly 5.5. If it had a minor wrinkle, it would possibly get knocked down to a 3 or 4. Very nice card!

I'd also estimate the Cobb would sell in the $6K range, depending on the final grade and auction house.

Nobody else has commented on the screwdown holders you're using, but if the cards move around freely within the holders you might want to look into a better method of storing them. Perhaps someone else could suggest something -- a better way to store raw T206s.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Bieg

Are there T202 Hassan Triple Folder experts here also?

My favorites are her T202s and they ALL are like this one below;

Attachment 176239


Would this be the top grade in this series? Am I correct in assuming that they ALL were folded when they were in the pack of cigarettes or did these only come if you bought a carton and ones that have never been folded would be "mint"?

Yes Bieg, triplefolders are found only with the two folds between the end and center panels. But over time the folds will weaken and this will be apparent to the eye. That Cobb is gorgeous. Grading is tricky and is tough enough to do in person, but nearly impossible from a scan. It looks NRBMT or better (7 or 8), but the pros might feel otherwise.

I understand your wife's choice not to grade them, and that is fine. But you do not have to worry about letting the cards out of your sight. If you use any of the top companies, they won't steal them or switch them out. They will do it right. But you are correct any auction company will do it for you.

To answer a different questions, T206 was issued in series, and the 350's appeared before the 460's. I am not sure why there are both frame and no frame American Beauties, but I'm sure somebody here knows more than I do.

[btcarfagno]

Wonderful to hear from the original owners of this collection. I won't be of much help as I am a noob where T cards are concerned.

I am so glad to hear that your cards will remain as they were intended to be...raw. Some call graded cards "entombed" and there is a reason for that. There is absolutely something special to the ability to hold the actual card in your hand (or at least being able to take it from its plastic holder if you ever wanted to....definitely good to keep them safe in those at least).

There are many here with decades of knowledge at your disposal.

I'm pretty much just sitting here at work drooling all over the keyboard. At the scans. Not your wife. Although...



Tom C

[Bieg]

Trying to get a handle on what size files can be uploaded to the gallery and how they look.

[brob28]

Bieg, thank you for sharing information with us on the site, you and your wife truly have an amazing collection. It's refreshing to hear your wife enjoys them and wants to keep them. Many times the heirs have no interest and sell immediately. When the time comes to sell, an auction house will most likely recommend you have them graded, in my opinion that is the best way to maximize your value. As was pointed out earlier, it's difficult to accurately determine grade from scans, so many collectors look for some additional assurance from grading companies when they are looking to bid on cards.

When I saw the show I could not believe how vibrant the colors were and of course the condition is amazing. Keep posting pictures, we love 'em.

[BicycleSpokes]

Amen. Thanks so much Bieg for sharing. It is a truly amazing collection!


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