Question regarding a hypothetical mail order problem for sellers and PayPal...

[drcy]

I once shipped an expensive ring via UPS where the employee at UPS officially confirmed and documented the ring was the item being shipped. She took it out of the package, then repackaged it herself. I think this method was at the buyer's request and there was an extra charge.

[D. Bergin]

Hopefully on a switch like that, it was a domestic transaction, and the Police and Post Office authorities were notified and reports were filed in the town that it happened in.

I'd be incensed if somebody stole that much from me, with the blessings of Paypal/CC Companies.

[ATP]

I know a case was opened with the local police department that the buyer lived in. He spent at least an hours worth or time on the phone with them total, just following up not including the police report he filed. Nothing ever came of it, hard to say what kind of follow up was done. According to the seller, he got the impression that the police had a case opened against this guy before by someone else but never found any evidence. I do believe they said they would pay him a visit but not sure if it ever happened. The item was very unique, and I have kept an eye out for it since, as I am sure at some post it was sold and will resurface on the market.

[vthobby]

Kevin,

I'm glad you were able to avoid the problem on ebay.

After bidding on some high dollar items recently in some high profile auctions, I was a bit taken aback when I tried to pay with a credit card and was asked to send a money order or personal check for the items. This shows me that not only are the auction houses saving a few percent on the transaction, but that they are covering themselves totally by not accepting paypal or credit cards (and having possible fraudulent chargebacks).

One of the auction houses did accept credit cards if your winnings were below $2000 I believe.

It actually got me thinking that it was a very smart move by them. Ebay/Paypal of course do not care about Sellers and make it very difficult for Sellers to try this approach.

mike

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am surprised we don't hear of more of these he said he said episodes. Except in the extreme case, is Paypal really in position to make credibility determinations? I'm not confident a buyer is 100 percent protected either if the seller ships a rock instead of what you won, and claims he shipped what you won. How can either party prove what they shipped or received? If the weight of the package conforms to what was supposed to be in it, there is no objective evidence of what really happened or did not.

[drcy]

My technique is to include with the baseball card worth over $2,000 a tape of Fatal Attraction and a boiled rabbit so the buyer knows what type of person he's dealing with. No PayPal chargebacks yet, though I get few repeat customers.

Any card under $2000, it's just a mouse.

[barrysloate]

Hi Kevin,
You need to protect yourself first. Given your scenario where a buyer can simply say the box was empty and request a refund, you should not go through with it. You can always find somebody to buy a valuable baseball card, even for a little less. Would you rather have 9K for it and a successful transaction, or get scammed at 10K? It's a no-brainer. Ebay/Paypal's answer is simply unacceptable.

[glchen]

I once asked this question on the PSA forum: Link. The answer was:

"First rule in doing this is to Not, and mean Ever, accept payment through Paypal. I Only accept High Dollar payments outside of Paypal. There are several ways to do this with your Buyer. Usually on Hi Dollar items there has been contact with me before they ever drop the Hammer and I make it clear what my rules are ahead of time. I have never had a 2K plus Sale without some form of Pre Contact, usually to negotiate on price. When we do come to a deal I usually get a Cashiers check or some type of Certified funds and then still wait a few days and have my Banker contact the Financial clearing house for the transaction and do this even with Repeat Customers. I Never ship anything until I am assured of the item clearing. I have no issue with my Buyers being amiable to this, if it is a Legit Buyer of a Hi Dollar item they should have no problem with this and in fact other than a little anticipation on some of their parts, have never had no problem.
... Also, any and all High Dollar items are Shipped USPS Registered with an Additional Second Signature Delivery Confirmation. Have never had a problem this way. "

[drcy]

"Sage advice, David . . . I mean the first post."

But, seriously, an obvious technique is have the buyer pay with check or money order on expensive orders, use the UPS-type shipping method I described or come up with your own personal method of documenting what you shipped (witness, filming, other).

"In between your fits of idiocy, David, you sometimes say intelligent things."
"Thank you. I have my lucid moments . . . Actually, I have an BFA and it's called collage."
"You're not supposed to say 'actually.'"
"Whatever."

[Bugsy]

When a high dollar item has been returned because of it being not as described, I have heard of sellers actually opening the returned item at the postal counter in front of a post office employee, while getting the event on video. I suppose the same could be done when mailing an item. Even that isn't airtight, but it could certainly help you argue your case. I suppose you have to be paranoid if it is a high dollar item.

[packs]

I guess that would be one of the advantages of consigning, the shipping is out of your hand and the headache is someone else's.

If I sold a high enough dollar item to a stranger I'd probably insist on delivering it by hand. But I guess even then Paypal would say I didn't provide a shipping number/couldn't confirm delivery.