Bill Mastro and his crew are even worse than I thought

[Fred]

Looking at the two scans of the Ruth cards (SGC and PSA graded), they appear to be the same card based on a couple unique characteristics of the card.

There have been a few credible hobby veterans that have also sent letters to the courts about Mastro and crew. I can't believe this guy just made up all of this stuff.

I guess a lot of the posters in this thread are arguing that Mastro and crew could not have done this to someone. Seriously? Are we to believe that everything being said in court is a huge lie and that these guys are "clean"?

Biggest hobby hoax - the PSA8 Wagner.... come on... I think it's common knowledge that the card was trimmed, does anybody dispute that? Are we to believe that anybody that would perpetrate such a fraud is honest in any sense of the word? Geesh....

[Rollingstone206]

...

[nolemmings]

I'm not saying Mastro or others involved with him are above anything. I just find the story strange to say the least. As Peter mentioned, what was the motive for the Ruth "swap"? Tell SGC to grade it low so you can scoop it at a low price (apparently keeping other bidders suppressed--the old anti-shill), get it re-graded and then make a profit?

An educated man then in his 40's relies on an Antique Roadshow and Antiques Trader to lead him to Mastro and apparently does little or no other research? Maybe for the old guy who doesn't know the first thing about some stash he found in the attic but this guy has been collecting since 1965, and has had a card graded seven years prior (why?). He knows of no other hobby resources? He doesn’t have the faculties to do a five or ten minute google search to better understand the market and other auction houses?

He has a Goudey Ruth and Lajoie but doesn’t want to pay $25 to have them graded --thankfully Mastro could have it done for $7, so that 's some sort of huge factor in his decision? Anyone want to show me a $39K Koufax rookie? Mastro employee Marren "examined" each of his 1500 cards--what is that a 5 hour or more process?-- but then only hurriedly scribbled a one-sentence reference on the consignment contract as to what was going to be auctioned, although there was a written "skeletal" inventory? The mysterious Mr. X "suddenly" shows up and the con is on? Really? They pressured you into not having better protection, or from giving them your own inventory for them to approve? And you're a lawyer? Sorry, IMO it just seems, um, strange. Bad cinema, actually.

[Fred]

Todd,

In a letter written by a BIG hobby veteran to the courts he indicated Mastro told him that "I would do anything to improve the appearance of any item or card".

The following is all speculation: The Ruth could have been submitted to SGC without being cleaned up. The card was shilled and not really sold by Mastro. The card gets cleaned up and submitted to PSA (as a preferential submitter) and the resulting grade netted a much larger bid than before. Tell me if any of that doesn't sound plausible, based on all we've been hearing. Pure speculation, but plausibe. It would be interesting to see WHO purchased that card when it was in the SGC holder.

Auction houses often submit cards for grading for their consigners, I don't find anything strange about that. I do feel the consignor was a bit naive (ok stupid) for 1 - not having an inventory list with him when he brought his cards, and 2 - a bit naive (ok stupid) for accepting a skeletal inventory list.

[packs]

To me the grading is fishy and definitely odd but the difference in sale prices are irrelevant. Once you've sold your card, it doesn't matter what it sells for the next time.

Not sure I buy the rest of the story as it is depicted. This person was a collector and not an inheritor of a collection. I would never walk out of an office without proper paperwork for even my modest and low-budget collection. I would assume he'd be just as passionate about his expensive one.

[sports-rings]

Once you've sold your card, it doesn't matter what it sells for the next time.

Well, it does matter if the letter is true and Mastro and his goons concocted a scheme to not auction the cards properly, obtain the cards below market value due to fraud and then sell them at a profit.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sports-rings

Well, it does matter if the letter is true and Mastro and his goons concocted a scheme to not auction the cards properly, obtain the cards below market value due to fraud and then sell them at a profit.

I am not defending Mastro at all, he and his bunch will have a lot of time to think about what they did...and not much else to do while doing it.

That being said this guy's story sounds crazy to me.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by sports-rings

Well, it does matter if the letter is true and Mastro and his goons concocted a scheme to not auction the cards properly, obtain the cards below market value due to fraud and then sell them at a profit.

My 2 cents but I'll gladly let the lawyers speak to correct me. (assuming what the was in the letter was accurate)

I believe the fraud was committed on the purchase, not on the sale. The sale would not even had to have taken place in order for fraud to have been committed. My guess would be the sale only makes the intent to defraud more 'provable'.

Fraud would have been committed on the sale if the sellers purported the item to be something it was not, which I don't believe happened here (assuming card was unaltered, etc). So in this case, it doesn't matter what the card sold for. Nor would it at any re-sale of any item, assuming fraud is not involved in the actual SALE of the item itself.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I'm not saying Mastro or others involved with him are above anything. I just find the story strange to say the least. As Peter mentioned, what was the motive for the Ruth "swap"? Tell SGC to grade it low so you can scoop it at a low price (apparently keeping other bidders suppressed--the old anti-shill), get it re-graded and then make a profit?

An educated man then in his 40's relies on an Antique Roadshow and Antiques Trader to lead him to Mastro and apparently does little or no other research? Maybe for the old guy who doesn't know the first thing about some stash he found in the attic but this guy has been collecting since 1965, and has had a card graded seven years prior (why?). He knows of no other hobby resources? He doesn’t have the faculties to do a five or ten minute google search to better understand the market and other auction houses?

He has a Goudey Ruth and Lajoie but doesn’t want to pay $25 to have them graded --thankfully Mastro could have it done for $7, so that 's some sort of huge factor in his decision? Anyone want to show me a $39K Koufax rookie? Mastro employee Marren "examined" each of his 1500 cards--what is that a 5 hour or more process?-- but then only hurriedly scribbled a one-sentence reference on the consignment contract as to what was going to be auctioned, although there was a written "skeletal" inventory? The mysterious Mr. X "suddenly" shows up and the con is on? Really? They pressured you into not having better protection, or from giving them your own inventory for them to approve? And you're a lawyer? Sorry, IMO it just seems, um, strange. Bad cinema, actually.

Precisely my point. Just because Mastro is a crooked scumbag who should be locked up for as long as the cage is available doesn't mean he kidnapped the Lindbergh baby too. Judged on its own merits the story seems equal parts wishful and embellished, and the letter reads like an essay by a community college student who speaks English as a second language.

[Peter_Spaeth]

One thing is clear. If I ever need a workmen's comp lawyer in Naperville, IL, I will look elsewhere than the author.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Oh and another thing. If someone had REALLY defrauded me out of 300K, I probably would have filed a civil claim. Especially if I was a lawyer myself. Just sayin.

[Exhibitman]

I always have to wonder why educated professionals who aren't easy to BS turn brain-dead when it involves cards. Look at the otherwise savvy collectors who become mindless company shills when it comes to PSA. And for what, a worthless certificate at a crappy luncheon handed out by a mannequin with a bad haircut? Honestly, it is just mind-boggling.