Are some cards too rare for their own good?

[steve B]

I suppose it depends on where you draw the line for "rare" If you use a card like the Wagner as the benchmark chances are you already own a rare card. I'd guess that every OJ and certainly every OJ cabinet are more rare. Figuring it as < around 60 known. I probably forget a couple, but I'm probably at a bit over 20 baseball cards that are tougher than a Wagner, a bit under 20 if OJs don't count. And I'm not counting modern numbered inserts at all.

Add in non-sports and that is at least 20 cards more.

Collect long enough and with little enough focus besides going for the strange and likely under appreciated and you'll get there pretty easily. Taken all together there's got to be thousands of rare cards to be had.

I don't think the rarity is in any way "bad" in any way other than financially. As others have said, without the buzz and popularity they just aren't as valuable as the stuff with better PR value.

What if .......... the Wagner was a common? I think our entire hobby would be very different. Maybe the Plank takes over as the driving force to popularity? Maybe not, the old story of a broken plate isn't as glamorous as the story of a player refusing because of kids and Tobacco. Even if neither is true.

Other than the sheer number of modern numbered cards, I don't buy the manufactured rarity argument. Or, maybe I should........Yeah, send me all those cheap manufactured rarities - Ivy Andrews R300, 33 Goudey Lajoie. (HEY very interesting parallel for another thread) The US Caramel Lindstrom (And McKinley) They're obviously all junk


Steve B

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Hi Leon,

First of all, this is a really interesting topic, I think. I've never considered whether super scarcity could potentially be a negative, but here's where I come down on the topic at hand after a little reflection.

I think I'm closer to the "no" side on this issue. I don't think there's anything inherently bad about the existence of some cards with incredibly low populations. While it's true that the super scare cards may sit permanently in somebody's private collection, and never see the light of day, that doesn't necessarily preclude those cards from being discussed here, or on any hobby-oriented website.

In a way, there's something romantic about cards that are so scarce that the chance of ever seeing one in person, let along owning a copy, are slim to none. Obviously, I don't mean romantic in the most commonly used sense of the word. But I don't think there's anything wrong with pining for that white whale card that would take one's collection to a level that was previously considered unattainable. Suffice it to say that some of the greatest collections ever assembled are owned by current Net 54 members. I can completely understand the reluctance these people might have to discuss their most valuable pieces. Not everything has to be on display for the world to see. I've been told in no certain terms that some of the pieces I don't know about would blow my mind. And, I'm ok with not knowing. Who knows, maybe some point down the road, many years from now, perhaps one of these collectors will contact me to show me some of their most prized possessions. If I will have earned their trust, then I will be happily browse through whatever they have to offer.

Leon, I would also think some of these rarer pieces would fuel collectors like yourself. I'll own some really nice cards in my life, but I don't know how many truly rare pieces my collection will ever include. However, for an advanced collector such as yourself, would these pieces drive you more? I would expect pursuing that kind of a card would be an entirely different exercise, one that required the help from other friends and contacts within the hobby. Maybe I'm off base here, but I would expect the thrill of the hunt for that rare card would be pretty exhilarating.



Barry, I cannot speak for anybody else on the forum, but I can say that if I'm not talking about those rarer cards, it's due to a lack of knowledge. I think I just don't know they exist. I would certainly be game for discussing anything rare. I'm always willing to learn!

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by steve B

Taken all together there's got to be thousands of rare cards to be had.

There's the rub, methinks. When the cards are so rare that most collectors are not aware of them those same collectors think of them as "one of those thousands of obscure rare cards" rather than, e.g., one of a dozen(?) Niagara Baking cards. And if it's just classified as one of thousands of oddball rarities then it doesn't seem rare enough to create excitement for collectors who aren't specifically into whatever particular thing it's a rare example of.

Same things happens if you follow sports. Watch Sportscenter pretty much any night of the year, and you'll hear about some incredibly rare feat that just happened in a sporting event earlier that day. Rare events happen all the time, which is to say rare events are pretty common. Any occurrence is rare is you specify enough criteria that have to be met.

And same thing (once again) with baseball cards. That's where the ACC has the big influence. It gives us a standard means of categorizing the cards so we can compare degrees of rarity without each coming up with our own arbitrary criteria.

[brian1961]

Steve Birmingham eloquently brings across some pivotal forces and catalysts that, historically, have transformed some rarities from pipe dreams or virtual unknowns into a frenzied fight for the few. Distilled to four words, the crucial driving force, as Steve worded it, is "the buzz and popularity".

Even then, that has not always worked. Specifically, there needs to be strong buzz AND popularity, a weakness or absence of either one usually spells, "ehh, so what."

Starting out with a famous case where the cards were anything but unknown, in 1985-86 when "Mr. Mint" Alan Rosen bought the case of 1952 Topps high numbers, before which time those were considered impossible dreams to own in near mint or better. The Mint Man did not have to do very much to create a frenzy for those cards, except "prove" he only had the one case, and no more was forthcoming. Twas indeed a brief window of opportunity, for which some collectors still smack their heads at their initial skepticism, and now forever wish they had jumped on this chance they let slip through their fingers.

In the mid-80s, Joshua Evans I believe found the long unknown no. 16 of the 1932 U.S. Caramel set --- Fred (Lindy) Lindstrom. Josh gave it the moniker, "The Million Dollar Card", representing his stated price. Enormous interest and speculation ensued. However, there just wasn't enough interest from the wealthy collectors. He tried very hard in the pages of Sports Collectors Digest, using well-done full-page advertisements. After all, Fred was a Hall-of-Famer; but he, along with everyone else, was not Babe Ruth. I felt very bad for Josh, because I sensed he really had an outstanding card with a superb background story. It was as if hobbyists wanted to punish the man for trying to capitalize in such a big way on his find.

Then there's the 1933 R306 Butter Cream missing card that finally turned up, and sure enough, it WAS Babe Ruth. The resultant furor over this Sultan of Swat gem consisted of excellent hobby coverage with loads of prognostications among vintage collectors. At about this time or so, millions of other collectors were obsessed with stock-piling their Greg Jeffries rookie bricks, and could not care less. The Butter Creams are neat slender cards and the Ruth was a decent pose. The card has sold for big, big bucks. Sadly, it really is genuinely rare, period. Perhaps there's three known, and one was tragically thrown away by a major hobby figure; by accident of course. Should another example turn up, in decent condition, I imagine it will make the seller quite pleased with the result.

Finally, there's one regal rarity of Ty Cobb that would garner several hundred thousand dollars, IF AND WHEN a nice specimen turns up. It's too rare, some might quip, but our Ty Cobb connoisseurs would want it in a heart beat. I speak of the 1910 Washington Times Ty. In a nutshell, its rarity stems from the fact that all Washington Times are rare. Few survived the ravages of time. You may view the cards, including our beloved Tyrus Raymond, on the site of OLD CARDBOARD, in their listing of sets. Studying the stirring visage of Ty's face, he's fully prepared to give his opponent on this day a dreadful, nightmarish beating!!!!!!!!!!!

A million dollar card, or at least half a million.

And why not?

No, of course I don't own one. Never saw one in person. The first time I laid eyes on the Washington Times Cobb was in a Mastro auction catalog early in this millennium. Instantly, THIS TY caught my eye.

These may very well have been distributed in the same way as the Baltimore News Orioles & Ravens. With the close proximity between Baltimore and Washington, it would seem the two sets were thought up and printed by the same firm, as their designs so mirror each other. Sure, Ty's T3 is the Peach's best card, and much much prettier, and very hard to find in nice condition. Notwithstanding, there's something mysterious and mesmerizing about the Washington Times---its crimson red regal look, combined with its rarity, combined with its diabolical difficulty to attain even at the time of its release, and finally the most important facet --- the aforementioned pungent portrait of Ty that speaks such deafening nonverbal trenchant words. A 500-carat Padparadscha sapphire of a card! Ah, the stuff cardboard dreams are made of!

Too rare for its own good? I guess it just depends if the card stirs the heart, the mind, and the spirit of at least a few collectors. ---Brian Powell