OT: Did Adam Dunn ruin his Hall chances

[sayhey24]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Since joining the A's, he's batting .278 (better than his career average) with 2 HRs and 7 RBIs. Adam will be gald you asked about him

Those numbers translate to 21 HR and 75 RBI over the course of a 150 game season -- those aren't the numbers you're looking for from a player whose only calling card for the Hall of Fame is his power.

Greg

[nolemmings]

"Adam Dunn is a liability to a team and should hold the record for the worst season in 2011 (but the manager played the stats game and kept him out of 6 extra at bats to make sure it didn't go down as a full season)."

I had forgotten just how awful he was in that 2011 season--his AL debut. He actually had more strikeouts than batting average points 177 to 159. .159? That's below the Mrs. Mendoza line.

EDITED to add: I see where he followed that up with another season of Ks>avg, when he whiffed 222 times and hit .204 in 2012.

[packs]

There's no defending that season. But if you're going to knock him for it then Reggie should be in the conversation too:

1983: hit .194 with 140 K's in 397 AB's with a .290 OBP.

At this point Reggie had not yet hit 500 homers.

[nolemmings]

Conversation maybe, but Reggie still had 11 more hits than Dunn in 99 fewer at bats, and had more HR, RBI and 60 OPS points on Dunn. Oh, and he was 37 years old, not 31 like Dunn, who was coming over to own the AL once he got to put his glove away. Or not.

EDITED TO ADD: Dunn finished 6 plate appearances from qualifying for the batting title. Assuming he went 1-6, a slight increase in his average, he would have finished with the worst BA by a qualifying hitter in 100 years.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by packs

There's no defending that season. But if you're going to knock him for it then Reggie should be in the conversation too:

1983: hit .194 with 140 K's in 397 AB's with a .290 OBP.

At this point Reggie had not yet hit 500 homers.

HAHA that is reaching. Reggie Jackson had already played 15 seasons after his rookie year debut. He was 37 years old.

Also Dunn has 3 worse season's than Jackson's second worst full (or aprox full, I dropped the requirement to more than 400PA, instead of the 502) in 1984.

Dunn's came 11 years after his rookie year debut and was 31. Also Jackson only got 458 PA due to injuries. Dunn only got 496 so that he wouldn't be considered the worst player in history. Again look at the overall RAA for the two players in their career, Jackson was at 313. He still attributed more than the average player did.

[Centauri]

By 1984, Reggie had 13 All Star appearances, 7 top tens in the MVP voting, winning in 73. Plus some medium level of success in the post-season, if I understand it right.

[packs]

I was just talking about all time worst seasons. Reggie's 1983 was pretty awful.

Do you think Reggie gets in first ballot if he retired after 1983?

Final stats if he did retire:

2,176 hits, 478 HR, 1435 RBI, 2106 SO's .268 ave


I have no opinion one way or the other. At least if he had retired in 1983 he would have avoided having more career strike outs than hits.

Keep in mind Reggie is a guy who got 93.62 % of votes in 1993. He received a higher percentage of votes than Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Joe DiMaggio and Roberto Clemente.

[D. Bergin]

These arbitrary HOF "lock" numbers are no longer applicable.

PED's, Bud Selig, Coors Field, the 24 hour news cycle, Advanced metric stats, etc.., etc.....have seen to that.

It's a case by case basis from here on out.

Hell, we might even be entering a new dead ball era. 250 HR's, a .280BA, and a .350 OBP might eventually get you in, if you stay out of the tabloids, don't do drugs, play with the right team, and inflate your Defensive WAR stats by cutting in front of team-mates to catch routine fly balls (Hello Jason Heyward).

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Centauri

By 1984, Reggie had 13 All Star appearances, 7 top tens in the MVP voting, winning in 73. Plus some medium level of success in the post-season, if I understand it right.

As a Dodgers fan growing up in the 70s I hated Reggie. Notwithstanding the strikeouts and low career BA, his greatness could not be denied. 13 AS teams and 7 top ten MVP finishes are all that need to be said. He was the dominant player pretty much of his generation.

On another note, I always felt that stats shouldn't be the sole arbiter on HOF eligibility which is why I never bothered to think about them when considering a player whose career I witnessed growing up. Jim Rice to me always felt like a monster player of his generation. How could he not make the HOF? Similar to an extent was Steve Garvey. While his production fell off at the end thus him never being considered a serious HOF candidate, he surely was the best player on a decade of great Dodgers teams, was a perennial AS and MVP vote getter -- winning it once -- but finished just 400 hits short of 3000 and had a lifetime BA of .298. If he had 400 more hits is there by any doubt he would be in the HOF today?

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by calvindog

As a Dodgers fan growing up in the 70s I hated Reggie. Notwithstanding the strikeouts and low career BA, his greatness could not be denied. 13 AS teams and 7 top ten MVP finishes are all that need to be said. He was the dominant player pretty much of his generation.

On another note, I always felt that stats shouldn't be the sole arbiter on HOF eligibility which is why I never bothered to think about them when considering a player whose career I witnessed growing up. Jim Rice to me always felt like a monster player of his generation. How could he not make the HOF? Similar to an extent was Steve Garvey. While his production fell off at the end thus him never being considered a serious HOF candidate, he surely was the best player on a decade of great Dodgers teams, was a perennial AS and MVP vote getter -- winning it once -- but finished just 400 hits short of 3000 and had a lifetime BA of .298. If he had 400 more hits is there by any doubt he would be in the HOF today?

+1. If anyone had told you in 1980/81 that Garvey not only wouldn't get in the Hall of Fame, but wouldn't even really be a serious candidate, what would you think at the time?