DBacks- dirty play against McCutchen

[chaddurbin]

todd,

i'm sure you're aware of all those kevin towers' talk last offseason about wanting his pitchers to hit more batters etc in retaliation and supposedly firing charles nagy because of it. they basically dumped upton and bauer because they didn't fit gibson's grittiness style. i'm guessing you're a d-backs fan but towers et al have become a national punchline and i'm still amazed he has a job....him and amaro in philly.

[nolemmings]

Hi Quan, it's been along time. I hear family life keeps you busy--I hope all is well. You should know that your constant chiding about my affinity for the black and white sets led me to finally buy some colorful lithographic cards. Hey, they're not bad. Still can't get me to bite on the shiny stuff or the autographs though.

Towers has been on his way out for at l east two months now, which makes any notion that someone is following his orders even more ridiculous. As I said (or hinted at) above, however, I would not expect things to change under a LaRussa led regime, and although I'm no fan, he has had his share of success.

Upton was traded because he was seen as aloof, more interested in self than team and known to disappear when needed most. Towers blew it in not getting more for him, but most Dback fans were not upset to see him go (while at the same time wishing him well, as he is not a bad guy). Bauer was considered a head case--someone who refused coaching and insisted that his own training and preparation regimen must be followed. Time will tell and again, my beef is more that they got not much in return. Eaton was widely disliked in the clubhouse. I will concede that Towers showed little patience before making moves on some of these, and that his moves have not been good, but again, he's out the door. {He is also incapable of assembling a major league outfield}

The focus on them being dirty though is ridiculously overblown, as I have set out above. I have no major issue going at McCutchen after Goldy went down for the year (he would have pushed 60 doubles this season), and again point out all of the injuries due to HBP and all the beanballs and ask you to show me how Arizona is any kind of major culprit compared to everyone else. They hit Braun and McCutchen, and of course we could get into that incident last year in LA. What else ya got?

[3-2-count]

This unwritten rule has been in the game far before I was around and it's still present today. All one needs to do is watch ESPN every night and you'll see it. To draw the conclusion that the Diamondbacks are any more dirtier than the next guy is absurd.

[Mountaineer1999]

I'm not sure if they are any more dirty than anyone else. I just know on this occasion they were wrong, they went about the business of it wrong. I think other teams deserve a ball in the ribs at times too..... this time was not the case. What the Hell was Delfado doing, trying to strike him out first and when that inept attpemt failed he drills him?
Fair or not , the D-Backs are getting a reputation around baseball.

http://www.cbssports.com/general/wri.../greggdoyelcbs

[nolemmings]

I will answer that but first let me point out that when a team wants to send a message as was the case with the Diamondbacks to Pittsburgh, it will often wait for an appropriate time rather than just jump at the first opportunity. It has been this way forever. Frank Robinson used to hold grudges for years. Zach Greinke hit Carlos Quentin early last year and watched him charge the mound–seems the two have been feuding for years.

Here the message was sent in a way that was least damaging to the game itself, which is how it should be and how it has often been handled over the years. Pittsburgh was ahead 5-1 with runners on second and third, no outs, and their best hitter at bat. The game was arguably still within reach, although it was the 9th inning. The baseball play in that situation, or certainly one of them, is to give McCutchen the open base to set up a double play or at least a force at any base. Had they intentionally walked him for that purpose no one would have been surprised. Still, that’s another potential run on base, so it has its downside. Thus, what do you do and what have you seen done hundreds of times every season? You pitch around him and hope he swings at a bad pitch or two and gets himself out. Thus the slider down and away, but McCutchen didn’t bite. Now the count is 2-0– a hitter's count to a great hitter. How many times have you seen the pitcher/catcher just give up at that point and concede the intentional walk? Here I can almost guarantee you at that point the decision was made that what the hell, we’re putting him on anyway, let’s just drill him and get our message across at the same time.

The same thing happened in June with Ryan Braun and Milwaukee, although the score was closer and it was the 7th inning. Same baserunner situation, no outs and a #3 hitter at bat. Count went 1-0 and then instead of walking Braun they drilled him. Next guy hit a grand slam and Arizona lost. Idiot media claimed that Gibby let a grudge get in the way of the team’s chances, but it would have made absolutely no difference had he walked Braun instead- it was the percentage baseball move to put him on– and he got to get his message across as well while adding no risk to his team's chances. Those are the two incidents that everyone uses to claim the Dbacks are dirty, etc.

It is so ridiculous to claim that it might have been all right had McCutchen just been hit right away. Really? Hit him in the top of the first and it would not have hurt as much? Can you imagine if he left the game in the first and the Pirates lost a close one, with their best hitter deprived of 4 ABs? How the Dbacks would then be accused of having to play dirty to win?

And as far as drilling him in the back, check video of almost any beanball and see where they aim and where it lands– the back is considered one of the “safest” places, after the butt, which Delgado’s pitch didn’t miss by that much. It used to be the ribs, but these guys throw so hard now that broken rather than bruised ribs are too strong a possibility.

I along with everyone in AZ is sorry McCutchen is injured, but I understand the decisions that were made. They are made pretty much every week by one team or another, and Arizona is no different and certainly not so villainous as they are made out to be.

[Mountaineer1999]

Do you really think they should have drilled McCutchen?

[effe]

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