2015 Hall of Fame election

ooo-ribay · #1 08-01-2014, 01:16 PM

I need to post my standard rant:

Why is LaRussa, a manager whose success was heavily dependent on steroid players, a first ballot HOFer, while the players who made him successful are not getting a whiff? Torre, as well.

CMIZ5290 · #2 08-01-2014, 01:32 PM

Johnson, Martinez, and Smoltz...

glchen · #3 08-01-2014, 01:41 PM

I took a look at Biggio's stats on baseball reference, and in his era, he dominates in .... plate appearances and hit by pitches ... I think he'll eventually get in because of 3000 hits, but I don't know if he deserves to get in.

I'd vote for Pedro and Randy. I think Smoltz deserves to get in but not on first ballot. Is Piazza known to be clean? I thought there was some doubt. If he's clean, he should go in b/c he was one of the best hitting catchers ever.

ooo-ribay · #4 08-01-2014, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glchen

Is Piazza known to be clean? I thought there was some doubt. If he's clean, he should go in b/c he was one of the best hitting catchers ever.

is Rickey Henderson KNOWN to be clean? Is Griffey, Jr. KNOWN to be clean?

pclpads · #5 08-01-2014, 09:21 PM

Too bad he passed this year, but if Martinez gets the nod in 2015, would have loved to have heard Zim's take on it.

Tabe · #6 08-01-2014, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I need to post my standard rant:

Why is LaRussa, a manager whose success was heavily dependent on steroid players, a first ballot HOFer, while the players who made him successful are not getting a whiff? Torre, as well.

I asked the same thing on another board. And the third guy (Bobby Cox) is a multiple-time spousal abuser.

perezfan · #7 08-02-2014, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I need to post my standard rant:

Why is LaRussa, a manager whose success was heavily dependent on steroid players, a first ballot HOFer, while the players who made him successful are not getting a whiff? Torre, as well.

Brilliant post, and I have been wondering the same for a long time now. How can you so readily celebrate the manager who oversaw the likes of McGwire, Canseco, Giambi and all the rest? He knew exactly what was going on, and is somehow not the least bit accountable? Really?

Very best case scenario is that he "turned a blind eye". Worst case is that he supported it, and even instructed them to partake. I think it's a tremendous double-standard, and can't believe it doesn't garner more attention and conversation.

bobbvc · #8 08-02-2014, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

Brilliant post, and I have been wondering the same for a long time now. How can you so readily celebrate the manager who oversaw the likes of McGwire, Canseco, Giambi and all the rest? He knew exactly what was going on, and is somehow not the least bit accountable? Really?

Very best case scenario is that he "turned a blind eye". Worst case is that he supported it, and even instructed them to partake. I think it's a tremendous double-standard, and can't believe it doesn't garner more attention and conversation.

Meanwhile the owners get a free pass (or even sympathy points from the really ignorant) even though as a group they profited the most BY FAR. Look at what John Moores paid for the Padres vs. what he sold them for. And that's small market. Franchise values skyrocketed when it looked like the '94 strike would "kill baseball". We should all have such ""good timing" as the Steroid era.

perezfan · #9 08-02-2014, 12:56 AM

Very good points and all true... But this thread focuses on HOF elections and who belongs/who doesn't. Rob just really hit home with me on the LaRussa thing, as I've been feeling the same for a long time now.

I suppose the owners are no better. But while many of them profited immensely, they aren't being honored/elevated/put on pedestals in the same fashion.

bobbvc · #10 08-02-2014, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I need to post my standard rant:

Why is LaRussa, a manager whose success was heavily dependent on steroid players, a first ballot HOFer, while the players who made him successful are not getting a whiff? Torre, as well.

Pretty simple math really. All managers had some users and some cleans. They had to deal with what they had to work with, fair enough (not discounting payroll inequities, talent differences, etc.) Same as it's always been with Managers. The players who were juiced are being compared to guys who chose to stay clean. That's clearly not fair. Sure, some cheats will get in and some cleans will be "suspect" and not get in. What's new? FWIW if you saw my previous post, it starts with the Owners and just follow the money from there.

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