Poll for Buying Cards with Chemically Removed Stains

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by E93

Some good questions would be:
1) If you purchased this card all cleaned up and later discovered the before scan on this forum, would you be pissed?
2)Would you want your money back?
3)Would the seller/auction house/TPG be obliged to give you your money back?

No, no and no.

Did Kendrick get mad when he found out that his Wagner was trimmed? Probably not. Did he ask for his money back? Probably not. If finding out purchasing a $2+ million trimmed card didn't upset Kendrick, why should purchasing a cleaned card bother me? I have too many other important things to worry about in life.

The questions also infer that the card (Plank) loses value now that is publicized that it's been cleaned. Did the Wagner lose value after it was publicized it's been trimmed? Again, probably not.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Did Kendrick get mad when he found out that his Wagner was trimmed?

Interesting question. Part of me finds it unfathomable to not be indifferent that a $2.8 Million dollar investment turned out to be fraudulent, yet at the same time the apathy and indifference towards fraud and deception in this hobby at times has been astounding.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

No, no and no.

Did Kendrick get mad when he found out that his Wagner was trimmed? Probably not. Did he ask for his money back? Probably not. If finding out purchasing a $2+ million trimmed card didn't upset Kendrick, why should purchasing a cleaned card bother me? I have too many other important things to worry about in life.

The questions also infer that the card (Plank) loses value now that is publicized that it's been cleaned. Did the Wagner lose value after it was publicized it's been trimmed? Again, probably not.

I agree with you about "too many other important things to worry about in life", and if we weren't discussing this card, I wouldn't give it much thought; however, with all respect, you can compare the trimmed Wagner and the chemicalized Plank in terms of their both being slabbed alterations of 'big' cards, but that's about it - the T206 Wagner is famous and has a long pedigree, including a book and a huge court debacle. All of that has apparently kept it's value steady. If it is sold again, we'll see if that holds.

The Plank has none of that going for it, although Eddie now gives the appearance that he's no longer embarrassed to be in a slab, and is ready to be on a slab instead.

If you really want to compare the two, and chemical-cleaning is going to be deemed okay, you would have to imagine that trimming is also okay, and doesn't have to be disclosed for PSA-slabbed cards. In such a world you would only have 'before' and 'after' scans. I would go for chemicals over that scenario.

[teetwoohsix]

I have a question for the memorabilia collectors here-hopefully some are reading this thread. Is it taboo to clean memorabilia? Bats with wood chips missing, is it ok to fill those in? Cleaning up a glove, or a ball? A seat from a stadium that no longer exists-if the paint is dull, is it ok to paint it back to it's original color, because it would "look" better? Or, do collectors of these items like the item to be left exactly how they received it?

Thanks in advance for any responses, I appreciate the input-

Sincerely, Clayton

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

I have a question for the memorabilia collectors here-hopefully some are reading this thread. Is it taboo to clean memorabilia? Bats with wood chips missing, is it ok to fill those in? Cleaning up a glove, or a ball? A seat from a stadium that no longer exists-if the paint is dull, is it ok to paint it back to it's original color, because it would "look" better? Or, do collectors of these items like the item to be left exactly how they received it?

Thanks in advance for any responses, I appreciate the input-

Sincerely, Clayton

You list several different examples there and I think each would be treated differently. I think it would be taboo to clean game-used memoribilia - bats, glove, balls. Those are expected to show signs of game-use.

I think it would be okay to restore a stadium seat, but that's just my opinion. If it's something you're going to display in your home, some may want to restore it, some may want to keep is as it was. I think that's just a matter of personal preference.

What about other types of memoribilia? I have some autographed mini-helmets (football and baseball), that reside on my bookshelves and they tend to get dust on them. I occasionally wipe them with down a damp cloth to remove the dust. I see nothing wrong wtih that.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You list several different examples there and I think each would be treated differently. I think it would be taboo to clean game-used memoribilia - bats, glove, balls. Those are expected to show signs of game-use.

I think it would be okay to restore a stadium seat, but that's just my opinion. If it's something you're going to display in your home, some may want to restore it, some may want to keep is as it was. I think that's just a matter of personal preference.

What about other types of memoribilia? I have some autographed mini-helmets (football and baseball), that reside on my bookshelves and they tend to get dust on them. I occasionally wipe them with down a damp cloth to remove the dust. I see nothing wrong wtih that.

Thanks for the reply David. Makes sense.

As far as wiping down your mini-helmets, that sounds reasonable. Now, if you were using Windex.... Side note, a Swifter may be better

Brian- I'm not sure on the Plank. There are many questions I would have-like, who sent it in to be cleaned, the consignor? The auction house? Combination of both? What was it cleaned with? Who cleaned it? Who submitted it? Was it disclosed (all information) to the winner? As far as the last question-if it were disclosed (all information) to the buyer, and he followed through, I guess the buyer would be ok with the card as is.

It's mind boggling that with such a high profile card that they would go to those extremes for a .5 bump!!

As far as value-of course varies, but I'm sure someone could look up what it sold for. I don't even know what auction house sold it.

It is clearly chemically altered, and an altered card should not have the numerical grade-in my opinion. The scans are the proof.

Sincerely, Clayton