Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I will sum up this thread from my view:

1.Most board members don't mind soaking a card or cleaning it with water.
2.Most board members mind it being cleaned with anything else.
3.Almost all board members don't approve of creases or wrinkles being removed.

As for me.....still on the fence but would generally fall into the categories above.

4. The people who think it's OK for the most part won't disclose it.

[wonkaticket]

Or a simple thought if you soak a card off a page with something you would let your kids drink. Or if you are removing stains with something you would rush your kid to the emergency room for drinking. Which do you think raises more eyebrows among collectors.

Nobody is arguing lots of cards got soaked off pages over the years from albums etc. with water. I think most are saying what Ryan and I have said water doesn't remove major stains and whiten cards to supernatural states.....that's using something else.

Having healthy breakfast is good for athletes might even give them an edge, however having a breakfast and a shot of steroids isn't the same thing IMO. I know....I know as long as you can't tell and enjoy the game what does it matter that the players are juiced as long as you can't tell.

John

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

4. The people who think it's OK for the most part won't disclose it.

For the record, and let me be very clear, if I soaked a card and honestly remembered it at the time of sale, I would certainly disclose it. My sales speak for themselves...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...+topps+schmidt

However, I don't have a problem with other sellers not disclosing it. I guess the reason for that is because I see nothing wrong with soaking. So, I'm not saying it's right for me, I'm just saying I don't have a problem with other sellers not doing it. In other words, if I were buying a card, it would make absolutely no difference to me at all fi the seller told me that it was previously soaked or not. It would not influence my buying decision.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Does Frank's Fine Auctions accept consignments? I have an old lever action Winchester that I would like to sell. It's pre-'64, so it's highly collectible. The gun is in pristine condition having never been cleaned. That's right, no solvent has ever touched the bore. Lots of rust and corrosion included to lend credibility.

FFA would be happy to accept your consignment, David, and would proudly offer you the highest consignment rate in the industry. Remember our guarantee that if you can find a higher consignment rate anywhere, we will match it.

[barrysloate]

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, families often spent a quiet evening together gluing cards and die cuts into scrapbooks. It's what people did when there was nothing good to watch on TV.

Many thousands of the cards that survive today owe their existence to the fact they were glued in. Otherwise, most of them would have been thrown out years ago.

Over time, so many have been soaked out of albums that it would be impossible to keep track of them. They are dispersed all over the hobby, and for the most part, the fact they were soaked is lost to history. It's silly to worry about it because they are everywhere. Many people have these cards in their collections and have no idea of it. Soaking seems to me a really minor process that should have no bearing on a card at all.

[Republicaninmass]

The first rule about the process...


...you dont talk about the process

[chernieto]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, families often spent a quiet evening together gluing cards and die cuts into scrapbooks. It's what people did when there was nothing good to watch on tv.

Many thousands of the cards that survive today owe their existence to the fact they were glued in. Otherwise, most of them would have been thrown out years ago.

Over time, so many have been soaked out of albums that it would be impossible to keep track of them. They are dispersed all over the hobby, and for the most part, the fact they were soaked is lost to history. It's silly to worry about it because they are everywhere. Many people have these cards in their collections and have no idea of it. Soaking seems to me a really minor process that should have no bearing on a card at all.

exactly !!

[ALR-bishop]

I have been collecting cards since 1957. I have never soaked or cleaned a card myself. I would be terrible at either. I have no idea if I have soaked or cleaned cards in my collection....and I do not care. It is just a hobby for fun to me. If it was an investment or business for me, I guess I would worry about this stuff. Glad it is not. When I am dead someone else can keep, sell, or burn my cards, I do not care. I just enjoy them now.

[D.P.Johnson]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, families often spent a quiet evening together gluing cards and die cuts into scrapbooks. It's what people did when there was nothing good to watch on TV.

Televisions weren't mass produced until the 1930's. Most American families didn't have a television until the 1950's.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson

Televisions weren't mass produced until the 1930's. Most American families didn't have a television until the 1950's.

Dan, he was joking. I thought it was pretty funny.

[williamcohon]

In the violin world, an old instrument with a crack needs to be repaired. With a high quality repair, the value is retained. Revarnishing, however, detracts from the value.

In the art world, cleaning, flattening, even re-weaving are par of a curator's aegis.

It seems arbitrary to me, and just a bit peculiar, that in the card world there is such an insistence on the perpetuation of earlier damage, especially when methods exist that can effectively repair it.

I have never soaked a card, but it wouldn't bother me to find out that I own some that have had a bath.

[ElCabron]

Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson

Televisions weren't mass produced until the 1930's. Most American families didn't have a television until the 1950's.

This is awesome.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by williamcohon

In the violin world, an old instrument with a crack needs to be repaired. With a high quality repair, the value is retained. Revarnishing, however, detracts from the value.

In the art world, cleaning, flattening, even re-weaving are par of a curator's aegis.

It seems arbitrary to me, and just a bit peculiar, that in the card world there is such an insistence on the perpetuation of earlier damage, especially when methods exist that can effectively repair it.

I have never soaked a card, but it wouldn't bother me to find out that I own some that have had a bath.

As has been stated, the reason for this is that for the most part baseball cards were produced in quantity and therefore relative condition is an important determinant of value. Restoration artificially manipulates relative condition.

[T205 GB]

First I will state I have never had the services of Mr Towle for any cards I have owned but have sent some people that way to have cards removed from scrapbooks and ect. I have also had many transactions with Dick and got several cards in my collection I have had for yrs from him. All were bought with nothing done to them per our conversations and there are several other guys I have spoke with that say the same. I do believe Dick only does cards sent to him so the guy to be upset with is the one that don't disclose that. Don't hate the man for making some extra scratch. I do not condone altering in any way but the removal of a stain or extra paper is ok as long as your not manipulating or adding to for the process to be completed. Look at how many cards have been soaked and pressed or something else. We probably all own an altered card of some type. Especially if you own a certain grading companies slabbed card. I know we all don't agree but that's my opinion about it.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Dan, he was joking. I thought it was pretty funny.

Thanks David. It was indeed a joke.

[teetwoohsix]

I never thought I would see the day that so many people would make an argument that cleaning a card with chemicals is justifiable on Net54.

Put me in the "no thank you" camp on this one.

Sincerely, Clayton

[williamcohon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As has been stated, the reason for this is that for the most part baseball cards were produced in quantity and therefore relative condition is an important determinant of value. Restoration artificially manipulates relative condition.

I have never sold a card, and have no intention to do so. So money plays a limited role in the value of my cards, and that role decreases the farther I get from the point of sale. What matters is aesthetics, history, nostalgia, and stuff like that.

If my favorite shirt gets wrinkled, I iron it. If I'm playing my Martin guitar for my granddaughter, and she runs over and touches it with spaghetti-sauce hands, I'll clean it. If my sports car gets a dent, I take it to a great body shop. To me, the shirt, the guitar, and the car are better - worth more - for the attention.

As for artificial manipulation, it all depends on how you define words and where you draw lines. For me, removing glue or wrinkles (or spaghetti sauce or dents), is not intrinsically more artificial than applying them in the first place.

[Runscott]

.........

Have a happy chemically-clean Sunday

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

What is chat 54?

He meant the Area51 chat board.

Seriously I have worked with Dick for years and HIGHLY recommend him and his son!

Thanks guys

Dan

[BeanTown]

Bump

[conor912]

Originally Posted by williamcohon

I have never sold a card, and have no intention to do so. So money plays a limited role in the value of my cards, and that role decreases the farther I get from the point of sale. What matters is aesthetics, history, nostalgia, and stuff like that.

If my favorite shirt gets wrinkled, I iron it. If I'm playing my Martin guitar for my granddaughter, and she runs over and touches it with spaghetti-sauce hands, I'll clean it. If my sports car gets a dent, I take it to a great body shop. To me, the shirt, the guitar, and the car are better - worth more - for the attention.

As for artificial manipulation, it all depends on how you define words and where you draw lines. For me, removing glue or wrinkles (or spaghetti sauce or dents), is not intrinsically more artificial than applying them in the first place.

This is deep, Bill.

Glad to see you posting!

[swarmee]

His post was from 2014.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by swarmee

His post was from 2014.

So it is. Hahahaha.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by conor912

This is deep, Bill.

Glad to see you posting!

Agreed!! 100%. Unfortunately, maybe card collectors dont see it that way. And maybe people are mistaken.