Simulated T206 sheets....check them out....plus, new find of 350/460 series DRUM card

[Jantz]

Some of this information may seem obvious to most, but I'm going to include it anyway for some of our new board members.

I believe that the printing of T206 sheets was very compact and not much border was left to be trimmed. As Ted said in post #131, "printers do not like to waste paper". And I agree with him.

If the sheet borders were more spacious, we probably wouldn't see sheet numbers or crop lines on the backs of T206s. One could expect to see a sheet number or crop line on a T206 if it had huge borders, but actually its the opposite. T206s that have sheet numbers and crop lines are usually standard size T206s.

I do believe the Young and Stahl cards may lend us some clues to sheet size.

As far as sheet dimensions, I can't really add any information since I've done no research on that matter. I also have no idea how the sheets were cut, so I'm just theorizing with what I post below.

I think its safe to say the Young and Stahl cards were at the top of the sheet/column. If they were in the middle of the column and miscut that bad, they would look like the Phillippe/Engle card. (see below)

Also the Young and Stahl cards show no major print defects. Neither have a ghost print or a color shift and since both have a back advertisement, one could conclude that they we "finished product" waiting to be cut from the sheet.

I think the third cut that was performed along the bottom of these cards was the cut that ruined the card's appearance, but it also lends us a glimpse at how much sheet border remained above the player's image.

I boxed the Stahl card (see below) as to where the top border should have been cut. So is the excess paper above my red line remnants of the sheet border that would have been removed on the final cut?

Keep in mind the Young card is not oversized. I will post a comparison scan below courtesy of Dan M. I have not seen the Stahl card other than the scan posted earlier in this thread, so I'm not sure of it's measurements.

If a person were to measure either of these cards, I think we could get an idea as to how much of a sheet border actually existed before the final cut was made.

One last thing I would like to add. I have to agree with Ted Z. in the fact that the 12 players he refers to as the "Exclusive 12" were on a sheet together. I posted a thread back in 2010 about these same players being on a sheet together and have seen no evidence since to make me think otherwise.

Jantz

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Jantz

Some of this information may seem obvious to most, but I'm going to include it anyway for some of our new board members.

I believe that the printing of T206 sheets was very compact and not much border was left to be trimmed. As Ted said in post #131, "printers do not like to waste paper". And I agree with him.

If the sheet borders were more spacious, we probably wouldn't see sheet numbers or crop lines on the backs of T206s. One could expect to see a sheet number or crop line on a T206 if it had huge borders, but actually its the opposite. T206s that have sheet numbers and crop lines are usually standard size T206s.

I do believe the Young and Stahl cards may lend us some clues to sheet size.

As far as sheet dimensions, I can't really add any information since I've done no research on that matter. I also have no idea how the sheets were cut, so I'm just theorizing with what I post below.

I think its safe to say the Young and Stahl cards were at the top of the sheet/column. If they were in the middle of the column and miscut that bad, they would look like the Phillippe/Engle card. (see below)

Also the Young and Stahl cards show no major print defects. Neither have a ghost print or a color shift and since both have a back advertisement, one could conclude that they we "finished product" waiting to be cut from the sheet.

I think the third cut that was performed along the bottom of these cards was the cut that ruined the card's appearance, but it also lends us a glimpse at how much sheet border remained above the player's image.

I boxed the Stahl card (see below) as to where the top border should have been cut. So is the excess paper above my red line remnants of the sheet border that would have been removed on the final cut?

Keep in mind the Young card is not oversized. I will post a comparison scan below courtesy of Dan M. I have not seen the Stahl card other than the scan posted earlier in this thread, so I'm not sure of it's measurements.

If a person were to measure either of these cards, I think we could get an idea as to how much of a sheet border actually existed before the final cut was made.

One last thing I would like to add. I have to agree with Ted Z. in the fact that the 12 players he refers to as the "Exclusive 12" were on a sheet together. I posted a thread back in 2010 about these same players being on a sheet together and have seen no evidence since to make me think otherwise.

Jantz

1st.....it's good to hear that some here agrees with my statement that printers are not likely to "waste much paper" in their jobs. Shown below is a hypothetical example
of the efficient use of paper with respect to this printing practice.

2nd....the miscut Stahl & Young cards suggest to us (as you well stated) were indeed top row cards on their respective sheets. It appears that both these two different
sheets were printed with a top border of approx. 1/2" each. I would think that most would agree with this observation.

3rd....the Exclusive 12 (as I like to refer to them) in the 460-only series provide us true insight into how ALC formatted the printing of certain T206's. These 12 subjects,
based on the availability of their various tougher T-brand backs, without a doubt show us that they were printed separately from the other 36 subjects that were printed
with only 460 backs. Therefore, we have a valid example to consider in our search for how other T206's were printed.


And I might add, that the 12 - T205 Minor League subjects also provide us a clue as to how these cards were formatted. It would not surprise me to find out that these
12 subjects were printed on a sheet separate from all the other T205 cards.


A tightly printed 108-card sheet with 7/8" margin on each side and 3/16" margin on top and bottom.


v................................................. .................................................. .... 19" wide x 24" long sheet .................................................. .................................................. ...............................................v
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________

........
..............
..............
L_________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________________




TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

3rd....the Exclusive 12 (as I like to refer to them) in the 460-only series provide us true insight into how ALC formatted the printing of certain T206's. These 12 subjects,
based on the availability of their various tougher T-brand backs, without a doubt show us that they were printed separately from the other 36 subjects that were printed
with only 460 backs. Therefore, we have a valid example to consider in our search for how other T206's were printed.


And I might add, that the 12 - T205 Minor League subjects also provide us a clue as to how these cards were formatted. It would not surprise me to discover
that these 12 subjects were printed on a sheet separate from all the other T205 cards.


TED Z.

Hey guys,

Here is that recurring 12 factor again......it is found throughout the various white-bordered sets (T206's, T213's, T215's, etc.); and, gold-bordered (T205) set (1909-1919).

The artistic designs of these 12 Minor Leaguers (ML) are unlike the other T205 designs. All 12 of these guys represent teams in the Eastern League. They were printed only
with two T-brand backs: HASSAN Factory #649 or POLAR BEAR. The bios on the backs of these cards suggest that these 12 ML were printed at the tail end of the T205
press run (perhaps in 1912). I would venture to say that these 12 subjects were printed on a separate sheet of their own (without any of the T205 Major Leaguers on it).


Illustrated here is a theoretical 48-card sheet of the T205 Minor Leaguers (may have also been printed as a 96-card sheet).













Examples like this ML group of 12 - T205's.....and the Exclusive 12 of the T206 (460-only) series.....and the 12 subjects in the T206 150-only series.....and the similar examples
in the T213's, and T215's where it is obvious that the cards were printed in columns of 12 is certainly enough evidence in my logical thinking mind that indeed this pattern was
American Lithographic's printing format.



TED Z
.